How come every post we have about almost anything - you get Clifford Clavin/SPMBLNPF coming on here & ruining it & coaxing everybody into responding to his rants. He is an obvious troll. I am getting really tired of it. Every post is either somebody is an idiot, or they are too stupid to understand anything. It gets old real fast.
Agreed, obvious troll.
Kipketer was 24 when he set his world record. Rudisha is 23 and has a faster 400m pr. I think he has room to improve over the next 2 years.
Rudisha looks like he sits at 1:41 almost every race now in summer and he already dominates the all time list at sub 1:42. If he gets pacing to 600m or even actually has someone contesting for the win that far out, he could break 1:40. He looks that easy the first 600m. But first things first, breaking 1:41, which should happen at Rieti if not sooner. Coe could have run faster with health and contesting the distance more frequently, no doubt.
honestly LR has gotten so bad I can't tell who's just a moron and who is actually trying to troll anymore
either way they're not worth my time
another Coe fan wrote:Deano, we both know that if Seb had been healthy in 82 and 83 he would have put the 800 out of reach. He would still be the holder now.
bullshit
his firenze run was far & away the run of his life
no one ever expected anything that fast, maybe around 1'42.0 as career pb after his 1'42.3wr where he'd already run far faster than anyone expected
like mj when he ran 19.32, obvious to anyone with a clue that was a once in a lifetime run
ventolin^3 wrote:
another Coe fan wrote:Deano, we both know that if Seb had been healthy in 82 and 83 he would have put the 800 out of reach. He would still be the holder now.bullshit
his firenze run was far & away the run of his life
no one ever expected anything that fast, maybe around 1'42.0 as career pb after his 1'42.3wr where he'd already run far faster than anyone expected
like mj when he ran 19.32, obvious to anyone with a clue that was a once in a lifetime run
OK, ventolin, plug in Coe's high 45.xx and 3:29.77 into your tables, and what 800m time pops out?
W. Mitty wrote:OK, ventolin, plug in Coe's high 45.xx and 3:29.77 into your tables, and what 800m time pops out?
his 400pb was actually 46.7+
his 400/1500 times were very weak compared to what he wouda run in perfect race
his best line of fit is
45.7 / 1'41.4 -> 2'10.8 , 3'27.2 , 3'44.3
his 1k was very poor despite being 2'12.1wr ( poor pace judgement/little rest & blisters )
this race is worth <3'28 at even-pace & drafting to the bell :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-W7B483K8Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 13 Minutes at Pre
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Will NOT Break 3:37 Tonight
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Galen Rupp Has NO CHANCE At Lagat's 2 Mile AR
Who is SPMBLNPF?
raining in kennett wrote:
Who is SPMBLNPF?
It's me, you unwashed mass.
ventolin^3 wrote:
W. Mitty wrote:OK, ventolin, plug in Coe's high 45.xx and 3:29.77 into your tables, and what 800m time pops out?his 400pb was actually 46.7+
his 400/1500 times were very weak compared to what he wouda run in perfect race
his best line of fit is
45.7 / 1'41.4 -> 2'10.8 , 3'27.2 , 3'44.3
his 1k was very poor despite being 2'12.1wr ( poor pace judgement/little rest & blisters )
this race is worth <3'28 at even-pace & drafting to the bell :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-W7B483K8
Thank you!
ventolin^3 wrote:
another Coe fan wrote:Deano, we both know that if Seb had been healthy in 82 and 83 he would have put the 800 out of reach. He would still be the holder now.bullshit
his firenze run was far & away the run of his life
no one ever expected anything that fast, maybe around 1'42.0 as career pb after his 1'42.3wr where he'd already run far faster than anyone expected
like mj when he ran 19.32, obvious to anyone with a clue that was a once in a lifetime run
Nonsense.
It was discussed in the pages of AW that Coe was capable of threatening the then WR of 1:43.4 in 1978, when he was 21.
John Walker said right after watching Coe run 1:42.3 in 79 that he thought he "looked like he could run 1:40"
Most Athletic pundits in the UK expected him to improve his WR later in 79 and he was going to have a go in Brussels, but got injured and curtailed his season after Zurich.
He ran 46.87 (not the 46.7 you claim to be his pb) after a heat of 46.95 easing up, a week or so after his Oslo 800, which wasn't a WR attempt but a tester to see how his training was going. By the end of August, with further speed work he was able to run a 45.5 relay leg in the European Cup, worth 46.0 - 46.2 for an open 400. That's over half a second improvement since the WR right there. So anyone with a brain could have predicted a run of sub 1:42 in late 79. If he is able to improve his 400 speed by 0.5 from July to August in 79, then why not improve by a similar amount from June (when he ran equivalent to an open 45.6) to August in 81?
When he didn't get a chance to improve his WR in 1980, it was considered a disappointment.
The pages of AW were already talking about how Coe was in WR 800 form a week before his Florence run, after front running a 1:44.0 and a 45.6 relay in 90 mins. This was based not just on the times he produced at Crystal Palace, but by the ease and manner with which he achieved them.
A new 800 WR was expected, just not necessarily as early as June 10th! Now Ventolin, ask yourself why it was not expected then!?
When he went to Italy on June 10 he was looking for another fast run to see what sort of form he was in. He was looking for a 1:43 low and his father didn't go as it wasn't a WR attempt. That was planned for Oslo over a month later. When he ran 1:41.7 (worth 1:41.5 due to running wide on the bend) he was not at a season peak. A top athlete like Coe does not plan to reach a peak in early June, and he is on record as saying that the focus/peak of his season was to win the Europa Cup 800 in late August, the planned Mile clash with Ovett in Brussels a week later, and the World Cup 800 in early September. There would have been a lot more speed work done between early June and Sept. Just because he didn't get to run a fast tt 800 later that season, does not mean he wasn't capable of doing so.
Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would realise that Coe was in better form in August 81 than June. The reason he didn't record a faster time over 800m later that year is due to 3 things:-
1) He had already set a WR earlier than expected, and it made him 1.71 sec faster than anyone else in history. The most dominant gap between No 1 & 2 since before WW2. There was no incentive to improve further that year.
2) He wanted to win the 2 titles up for grabs that year and prove his tactical ability, after losing the Moscow 800. He had no reason running various fast 800 races around Europe. He had nothing to prove in that department,
3) He wanted to break the 1500 & Mile records to end the season with a full set.
Your insistence that Coe was at some sort of career peak in early June is unconvincing. The idea that Coe, with his (and his father's) experience of peaking when it matters, somehow reached an unplanned peak in early June, before the serious speed work began, is ludicrous. Yes, it remains one of his greatest runs, but that doesn't mean it represents his ultimate ability.
Kipketer attacked the 800 WR in July 97 and ran 1:41.7. With further speed training and further planned WR attempts, he improved to 1:41.11.
Rudisha ran a 1:41.5 in mid season 2010, before getting down to 1:41.01.
This year he ran 1:41.74 just a day earlier than Coe' s WR from 81. He has already improved by 0.2 and I would strongly expect him to improve further when he has planned attacks at the record after the Olympics.
To suggest that Coe was not able to emulate a well trodden pattern of top guys improving over the duration of a season is just you being contrary. You can pluck Kaki out from arse as often as you want, but one example of an inferior athlete does not prove a point.
You can make all the excuses and massage the figures as much as you want to bring a 1:44.3/3:33.1 Ryun down to a 1:40.7/3:25 superman, and then ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with you.
But when others suggest a 1:41.7 performer could have run 1:41.0, you call them idiots. You have a very slanted and dis-jointed view on reality.
By your own admittance, Coe was a simultaneous 45.6/3:27- 3:28 guy by July 81. That combination of 400 speed and 1500 endurance is unmatched by anyone in history. It is not therefore unrealistic to claim that such an athletic combination was capable of 1:41.0. Neither is it unrealistic to claim that such an athlete could & should have gone on to run faster in the following 2 seasons had he not suffered from injury and illness, which is what you ridiculed the previous poster for writing.
What IS far more unrealistic is your claim that a man of 20, almost 50 years ago was capable of running 3.5 faster than his 800 pb and 8 secs faster than his 1500pb, and should be the WR holder still.
Regardless of what Kipketer, or Coe could have, or should have ran, David Rudisha has bested their times.As far as PBs, in Coe's case significantly, in Kipketers perhaps not as much.
But, more significantly perhaps, is the consistent posting of sub 142s, at a VERY young age. neither Coe or Kipketer can touch him in this regard.
Given the times posted Rudisha IS the 800m GOAT hands down. At 23yrs old, I wouldn't bet against him bettering the record a good bit.
I trust Deano's judgement on this one.
It is worth reiterating that Coe had a greater range of expertise than does Rudisha in that he could run a respectable 400 time along with being a world record holder/setter at both 800 and 1500/mile. The ability to run a both 45 second 400 and a sub 3:30 1500 does suggest the ability to run close to a sub 1:40 800.
deanouk wrote:It was discussed in the pages of AW that Coe was capable of threatening the then WR of 1:43.4 in 1978, when he was 21
i assume by some idiot writing in
threatening 1'43.4 doesn't = 1'42.3
if he was going to break it, it was expected by a coupla tenths NOT 1s & even then 1'43.9 was long way from 1'43.4
he shocked anyone with a clue with that run
John Walker said right after watching Coe run 1:42.3 in 79 that he thought he "looked like he could run 1:40"
the guy is clearly an idiot predicting times
a high-1'44 guy has no clue what 1'40 is
coe was a million miles away from 1'40
Most Athletic pundits in the UK expected him to improve his WR later in 79 and he was going to have a go in Brussels, but got injured and curtailed his season after Zurich
bullshit
no one in international world was expecting any improvement on 1'42.3
he'd run faster than anyone i ever read predicted with 1'42.3 & no one i read was predicting quicker that year
He ran 46.87 (not the 46.7 you claim to be his pb) after a heat of 46.95 easing up, a week or so after his Oslo 800, which wasn't a WR attempt but a tester to see how his training was going
drivel
moron
that was no tester
oslo was no tester meet back then
that was an eyeballs-out wr attempt
idiot
cut the crap
he went for it with everything he had
By the end of August, with further speed work he was able to run a 45.5 relay leg in the European Cup, worth 46.0 - 46.2 for an open 400. That's over half a second improvement since the WR right there
moron
any perceived improvements in 400 mean nothing
rudy coud go & run 44.75 & that woud mean absolutely nothing as to what his 800 prospects were
So anyone with a brain could have predicted a run of sub 1:42 in late 79
moron
it implies nothing of the sort
he may have reduced endurance training which means his 800 may have been slower
only an idiot uses an isolated time to predict others
If he is able to improve his 400 speed by 0.5 from July to August in 79, then why not improve by a similar amount from June (when he ran equivalent to an open 45.6) to August in 81
because moron
- no auto timing for relay legs - 45.6 is nothing official
- there was a difference of 2y
- you have no idea if any increased speed comes at cost of greater endurance loss with overall slower 800
idiot
he hit his perfect day with 1'41.7
no grown up expected that or anything significantly better ever again
moron
you were in short pants back then
no adult back then ever expected him to run better than that ever
When he didn't get a chance to improve his WR in 1980, it was considered a disappointment
& off course another back injury or toxoplasmosis to explain this ???
or just that he wasn't as good in '80 as '79
The pages of AW were already talking about how Coe was in WR 800 form a week before his Florence run, after front running a 1:44.0 and a 45.6 relay in 90 mins. This was based not just on the times he produced at Crystal Palace, but by the ease and manner with which he achieved them.
A new 800 WR was expected, just not necessarily as early as June 10th! Now Ventolin, ask yourself why it was not expected then!?
idiot
more guys writing in on letter pages
only an idiot predicts the breaking of an already strong wr & any perceived improved 400 time means nothing
like i said, if rudy puts up 44.75, that tells us nothing about whether he will break his wr
When he went to Italy on June 10 he was looking for another fast run to see what sort of form he was in. He was looking for a 1:43 low and his father didn't go as it wasn't a WR attempt
idiot
his father doesn't run the race for him
reverend colm doesn't go to rudy's 800 races
that doesn't mean a wr will not happen
That was planned for Oslo over a month later. When he ran 1:41.7 (worth 1:41.5 due to running wide on the bend) he was not at a season peak
idiot
it turned out a season peak
none of the 800 races he ran after showed anything superior
nothing times of 1'47.03 & 1'46.16 in winning cups
if he'd blasted a solo 1'42.5 in either, then you can talk about beating 1'41.7
however, those shit times don't offer any evidence of being better at 800 after firenze
A top athlete like Coe does not plan to reach a peak in early June, and he is on record as saying that the focus/peak of his season was to win the Europa Cup 800 in late August, the planned Mile clash with Ovett in Brussels a week later, and the World Cup 800 in early September
moron
he couda "planned" all he wanted
fact is, his peak came in june
find me a 1'42.5 solo in those cup races
There would have been a lot more speed work done between early June and Sept
idiot
& how much wouda his endurance suffered ???
you have no clue to what any extra speed work wouda cost in terms of endurance loss & effect on 800 & he's on record as saying he did speedwork prior to 1'44.0
Just because he didn't get to run a fast tt 800 later that season, does not mean he wasn't capable of doing so
nothing was stopping him
he had nearly 2s over anyone else in the euro/world cup races which were 1-offs
failure to run a 1'42.5 solo offers evidence that he was no better than firenze
Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would realise that Coe was in better form in August 81 than June
moron
not for 800
show 1'42.5 solo tt
The reason he didn't record a faster time over 800m later that year is due to 3 things:-
1) He had already set a WR earlier than expected, and it made him 1.71 sec faster than anyone else in history. The most dominant gap between No 1 & 2 since before WW2. There was no incentive to improve further that year
idiot
a 1'42.5 solo wouda offered enough proof of comparable to firenze, without need for another paced race
he coudn't do it
2) He wanted to win the 2 titles up for grabs that year and prove his tactical ability, after losing the Moscow 800
drivel
tactical ability is excuse for slow races for a guy with 1'41.7
he ran same shit slow race in moscow & lost
what on earth woud running 2 similar races next year prove ???
the statement to be made was gunning 1'42.5 from gun-to-tape to show ovett what he couda/shouda done in moscow, not 1'46/1'47 crap
coe coudn't offer solo-1'42.5
He had no reason running various fast 800 races around Europe.He had nothing to prove in that department
he didn't need to run anymore circuit 800s after
but that just means he can't be offered anything faster than firenze
3) He wanted to break the 1500 & Mile records to end the season with a full set
good for him
Your insistence that Coe was at some sort of career peak in early June is unconvincing
moron
i said 800 career peak
nothing about 1500
he mighta not been able to run 3'29.0 in a perfect race on that firenze day as opposed to low-3'27 later
The idea that Coe, with his (and his father's) experience of peaking when it matters, somehow reached an unplanned peak in early June
moron
his father coudn't get him to peak for moscow 800
what on earth makes your peabrain think his father had any control of when his son's body reached a peak when he screwed up his 800 peak in '80 ???
fact is he ran 1'41.7 in june
facts are is all he coud manage in 2 cups after were 1'46/1'47 when he shouda blasted solo 1'42.5
no evidence at all his 800 was better after firenze
before the serious speed work began, is ludicrous
drivel
he openly states speedwork after 1'44.0
don't dare compare this to rudy's situation of opening with 1'43+ in oz in march/april off no stated speedwork
moron
if rudy can't crack 1'43 off little/no speedwork, coe sure as hell wasn't running 1'41.7 off little/no speedwork
he'd put in damn hard amount of speedwork to run 1'41.7
Yes, it remains one of his greatest runs, but that doesn't mean it represents his ultimate ability
moron
for 800 it does
Kipketer attacked the 800 WR in July 97 and ran 1:41.7. With further speed training and further planned WR attempts, he improved to 1:41.11
moron
he ran a solo 1'42.6i ~ 4/12 before
that was inferior to his stockholm 1'41.7
kip actually got worse between march-july
that indoor run was maybe as good as any of his 2 further wrs
Rudisha ran a 1:41.5 in mid season 2010, before getting down to 1:41.01
different animal & still improving as just a kid
rudy is not coe & coe was no kid in '81
i told you kaki woud not improve his june 1'42.2 & he didn't you idiot - that's because an experienced observer knows when he sees a career pb
This year he ran 1:41.74 just a day earlier than Coe' s WR from 81. He has already improved by 0.2
moron
eugene had winds as bad as 2.6 & only 65f
paris is an enclosed stadium & no wind reading more than a few tenths & it was warmer
his paris run was not superior to eugene
and I would strongly expect him to improve further when he has planned attacks at the record after the Olympics
his paris run was worth 1'40.9 with proper drafting
i'd rate his eugene run superior
if he runs ~ 1'40.5 with perfect drafting later in year, then i'd call it superior to eugene
if he "only" goes 1'40.7/1'40.8, i woudn't
To suggest that Coe was not able to emulate a well trodden pattern of top guys improving over the duration of
a season is just you being contrary
f*cking moron
coe is not another guy
he coudn't peak for moscow 800, so there is no evidence he had control over his 800 peak
show me 1'42.5 solo from august '81
You can pluck Kaki out from arse as often as you want, but one example of an inferior athlete does not prove a point
moron
i called kaki's peak immediately as guy's then-there season pb & i even said career pb
your peabrain is too stoopid to understand this
& moron
1'42.2 is not far inferior to 1'41.7 or otherwise you better stop mentioning coe in same breath as rudy/kip as he is more inferior to them at 800 then kaki is to coe
You can make all the excuses and massage the figures as much as you want to bring a 1:44.3/3:33.1 Ryun down to a 1:40.7/3:25 superman, and then ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with you
moron
i said
1'40.3/3'24.4
as settled figures
But when others suggest a 1:41.7 performer could have run 1:41.0, you call them idiots. You have a very slanted and dis-jointed view on reality
idiot
there was no 1'41.0 in coe in firenze & no way any evidence of anything special in his 800s after
show me 1'42.5 solo in august
By your own admittance, Coe was a simultaneous 45.6/3:27- 3:28 guy by July 81. That combination of 400 speed and 1500 endurance is unmatched by anyone in history
ryun
but not given '70s track/pacers
It is not therefore unrealistic to claim that such an athletic combination was capable of 1:41.0
no
i get 1'41.4 for him that year
that was firenze run to all intents/purposes
1'41.0 is drivel
Neither is it unrealistic to claim that such an athlete could & should have gone on to run faster in the following 2 seasons had he not suffered from injury and illness, which is what you ridiculed the previous poster for writing
idiot
he was 24 in '81, good age for 800 peak
if he'd improved his 800 in '80, then you have some argument for continued improvement to '82
he ran the peak 800 of his life in june '81
that's a fact & no dreaming/wishing on your part of '82 or '83 is going to make it come true
you seem to keep forgetting cruz ran 1'41.77 in most brutal series of 800/1k ever run within 1/52 when he already wouda been on fumes after gold, aged just 21y
none of those 3 damn quick races earlier, what do you think his 1'41.77 couda been with solid 1/52 rest ???
also, if you can run 1'41.77 aged 21y, what the hell do you think expectations were for '85/'86... ???
in the end no improvement from 21y
cruz had infinitely more expectation to improve his 1'41.7 than coe, but never came close again, as did coe
What IS far more unrealistic is your claim that a man of 20, almost 50 years ago was capable of running 3.5 faster than his 800 pb and 8 secs faster than his 1500pb, and should be the WR holder still.
moron
cruz ran 1'41.77 at 21y
rudy ran 1'42.01 at 20y
1'40.3/3'24.4 for ryun in '67 on a '70s track is helluva lot more likely than coe ever running 1'41.0 in '81
1:39:00? No. 1:39:xx? I'd bet against it, but I wouldn't bet much.
Running on Empathy wrote:The ability to run a both 45 second 400 and a sub 3:30 1500 does suggest the ability to run close to a sub 1:40 800.
no
45.00 / 3'30.00 ->
1'41.54
however 3'30 is "subjective"
kaki can run a surprisingly good 3'31+ off presumably mostly 800 training
however, for a line of fit, i'd still look for something involving 3'29 or even 3'28, as that's what you woud ballpark his 1500 if it extended "perfectly" off 800 training ( did go 1'42.2 once )
ventolin^3 wrote:
deanouk wrote:It was discussed in the pages of AW that Coe was capable of threatening the then WR of 1:43.4 in 1978, when he was 21i assume by some idiot writing in
threatening 1'43.4 doesn't = 1'42.3
if he was going to break it, it was expected by a coupla tenths NOT 1s & even then 1'43.9 was long way from 1'43.4
he shocked anyone with a clue with that run
John Walker said right after watching Coe run 1:42.3 in 79 that he thought he "looked like he could run 1:40"
the guy is clearly an idiot predicting times
a high-1'44 guy has no clue what 1'40 is
coe was a million miles away from 1'40
Most Athletic pundits in the UK expected him to improve his WR later in 79 and he was going to have a go in Brussels, but got injured and curtailed his season after Zurich
bullshit
no one in international world was expecting any improvement on 1'42.3
he'd run faster than anyone i ever read predicted with 1'42.3 & no one i read was predicting quicker that year
He ran 46.87 (not the 46.7 you claim to be his pb) after a heat of 46.95 easing up, a week or so after his Oslo 800, which wasn't a WR attempt but a tester to see how his training was going
drivel
moron
that was no tester
oslo was no tester meet back then
that was an eyeballs-out wr attempt
idiot
cut the crap
he went for it with everything he had
By the end of August, with further speed work he was able to run a 45.5 relay leg in the European Cup, worth 46.0 - 46.2 for an open 400. That's over half a second improvement since the WR right there
moron
any perceived improvements in 400 mean nothing
rudy coud go & run 44.75 & that woud mean absolutely nothing as to what his 800 prospects were
So anyone with a brain could have predicted a run of sub 1:42 in late 79
moron
it implies nothing of the sort
he may have reduced endurance training which means his 800 may have been slower
only an idiot uses an isolated time to predict others
If he is able to improve his 400 speed by 0.5 from July to August in 79, then why not improve by a similar amount from June (when he ran equivalent to an open 45.6) to August in 81
because moron
- no auto timing for relay legs - 45.6 is nothing official
- there was a difference of 2y
- you have no idea if any increased speed comes at cost of greater endurance loss with overall slower 800
idiot
he hit his perfect day with 1'41.7
no grown up expected that or anything significantly better ever again
moron
you were in short pants back then
no adult back then ever expected him to run better than that ever
When he didn't get a chance to improve his WR in 1980, it was considered a disappointment
& off course another back injury or toxoplasmosis to explain this ???
or just that he wasn't as good in '80 as '79
The pages of AW were already talking about how Coe was in WR 800 form a week before his Florence run, after front running a 1:44.0 and a 45.6 relay in 90 mins. This was based not just on the times he produced at Crystal Palace, but by the ease and manner with which he achieved them.
A new 800 WR was expected, just not necessarily as early as June 10th! Now Ventolin, ask yourself why it was not expected then!?
idiot
more guys writing in on letter pages
only an idiot predicts the breaking of an already strong wr & any perceived improved 400 time means nothing
like i said, if rudy puts up 44.75, that tells us nothing about whether he will break his wr
When he went to Italy on June 10 he was looking for another fast run to see what sort of form he was in. He was looking for a 1:43 low and his father didn't go as it wasn't a WR attempt
idiot
his father doesn't run the race for him
reverend colm doesn't go to rudy's 800 races
that doesn't mean a wr will not happen
That was planned for Oslo over a month later. When he ran 1:41.7 (worth 1:41.5 due to running wide on the bend) he was not at a season peak
idiot
it turned out a season peak
none of the 800 races he ran after showed anything superior
nothing times of 1'47.03 & 1'46.16 in winning cups
if he'd blasted a solo 1'42.5 in either, then you can talk about beating 1'41.7
however, those shit times don't offer any evidence of being better at 800 after firenze
A top athlete like Coe does not plan to reach a peak in early June, and he is on record as saying that the focus/peak of his season was to win the Europa Cup 800 in late August, the planned Mile clash with Ovett in Brussels a week later, and the World Cup 800 in early September
moron
he couda "planned" all he wanted
fact is, his peak came in june
find me a 1'42.5 solo in those cup races
There would have been a lot more speed work done between early June and Sept
idiot
& how much wouda his endurance suffered ???
you have no clue to what any extra speed work wouda cost in terms of endurance loss & effect on 800 & he's on record as saying he did speedwork prior to 1'44.0
Just because he didn't get to run a fast tt 800 later that season, does not mean he wasn't capable of doing so
nothing was stopping him
he had nearly 2s over anyone else in the euro/world cup races which were 1-offs
failure to run a 1'42.5 solo offers evidence that he was no better than firenze
Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would realise that Coe was in better form in August 81 than June
moron
not for 800
show 1'42.5 solo tt
The reason he didn't record a faster time over 800m later that year is due to 3 things:-
1) He had already set a WR earlier than expected, and it made him 1.71 sec faster than anyone else in history. The most dominant gap between No 1 & 2 since before WW2. There was no incentive to improve further that year
idiot
a 1'42.5 solo wouda offered enough proof of comparable to firenze, without need for another paced race
he coudn't do it
2) He wanted to win the 2 titles up for grabs that year and prove his tactical ability, after losing the Moscow 800
drivel
tactical ability is excuse for slow races for a guy with 1'41.7
he ran same shit slow race in moscow & lost
what on earth woud running 2 similar races next year prove ???
the statement to be made was gunning 1'42.5 from gun-to-tape to show ovett what he couda/shouda done in moscow, not 1'46/1'47 crap
coe coudn't offer solo-1'42.5
He had no reason running various fast 800 races around Europe.He had nothing to prove in that department
he didn't need to run anymore circuit 800s after
but that just means he can't be offered anything faster than firenze
3) He wanted to break the 1500 & Mile records to end the season with a full set
good for him
Your insistence that Coe was at some sort of career peak in early June is unconvincing
moron
i said 800 career peak
nothing about 1500
he mighta not been able to run 3'29.0 in a perfect race on that firenze day as opposed to low-3'27 later
The idea that Coe, with his (and his father's) experience of peaking when it matters, somehow reached an unplanned peak in early June
moron
his father coudn't get him to peak for moscow 800
what on earth makes your peabrain think his father had any control of when his son's body reached a peak when he screwed up his 800 peak in '80 ???
fact is he ran 1'41.7 in june
facts are is all he coud manage in 2 cups after were 1'46/1'47 when he shouda blasted solo 1'42.5
no evidence at all his 800 was better after firenze
before the serious speed work began, is ludicrous
drivel
he openly states speedwork after 1'44.0
don't dare compare this to rudy's situation of opening with 1'43+ in oz in march/april off no stated speedwork
moron
if rudy can't crack 1'43 off little/no speedwork, coe sure as hell wasn't running 1'41.7 off little/no speedwork
he'd put in damn hard amount of speedwork to run 1'41.7
Yes, it remains one of his greatest runs, but that doesn't mean it represents his ultimate ability
moron
for 800 it does
Kipketer attacked the 800 WR in July 97 and ran 1:41.7. With further speed training and further planned WR attempts, he improved to 1:41.11
moron
he ran a solo 1'42.6i ~ 4/12 before
that was inferior to his stockholm 1'41.7
kip actually got worse between march-july
that indoor run was maybe as good as any of his 2 further wrs
Rudisha ran a 1:41.5 in mid season 2010, before getting down to 1:41.01
different animal & still improving as just a kid
rudy is not coe & coe was no kid in '81
i told you kaki woud not improve his june 1'42.2 & he didn't you idiot - that's because an experienced observer knows when he sees a career pb
This year he ran 1:41.74 just a day earlier than Coe' s WR from 81. He has already improved by 0.2
moron
eugene had winds as bad as 2.6 & only 65f
paris is an enclosed stadium & no wind reading more than a few tenths & it was warmer
his paris run was not superior to eugene
and I would strongly expect him to improve further when he has planned attacks at the record after the Olympics
his paris run was worth 1'40.9 with proper drafting
i'd rate his eugene run superior
if he runs ~ 1'40.5 with perfect drafting later in year, then i'd call it superior to eugene
if he "only" goes 1'40.7/1'40.8, i woudn't
To suggest that Coe was not able to emulate a well trodden pattern of top guys improving over the duration of
a season is just you being contrary
f*cking moron
coe is not another guy
he coudn't peak for moscow 800, so there is no evidence he had control over his 800 peak
show me 1'42.5 solo from august '81
You can pluck Kaki out from arse as often as you want, but one example of an inferior athlete does not prove a point
moron
i called kaki's peak immediately as guy's then-there season pb & i even said career pb
your peabrain is too stoopid to understand this
& moron
1'42.2 is not far inferior to 1'41.7 or otherwise you better stop mentioning coe in same breath as rudy/kip as he is more inferior to them at 800 then kaki is to coe
You can make all the excuses and massage the figures as much as you want to bring a 1:44.3/3:33.1 Ryun down to a 1:40.7/3:25 superman, and then ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with you
moron
i said
1'40.3/3'24.4
as settled figures
But when others suggest a 1:41.7 performer could have run 1:41.0, you call them idiots. You have a very slanted and dis-jointed view on reality
idiot
there was no 1'41.0 in coe in firenze & no way any evidence of anything special in his 800s after
show me 1'42.5 solo in august
By your own admittance, Coe was a simultaneous 45.6/3:27- 3:28 guy by July 81. That combination of 400 speed and 1500 endurance is unmatched by anyone in history
ryun
but not given '70s track/pacers
It is not therefore unrealistic to claim that such an athletic combination was capable of 1:41.0
no
i get 1'41.4 for him that year
that was firenze run to all intents/purposes
1'41.0 is drivel
Neither is it unrealistic to claim that such an athlete could & should have gone on to run faster in the following 2 seasons had he not suffered from injury and illness, which is what you ridiculed the previous poster for writing
idiot
he was 24 in '81, good age for 800 peak
if he'd improved his 800 in '80, then you have some argument for continued improvement to '82
he ran the peak 800 of his life in june '81
that's a fact & no dreaming/wishing on your part of '82 or '83 is going to make it come true
you seem to keep forgetting cruz ran 1'41.77 in most brutal series of 800/1k ever run within 1/52 when he already wouda been on fumes after gold, aged just 21y
none of those 3 damn quick races earlier, what do you think his 1'41.77 couda been with solid 1/52 rest ???
also, if you can run 1'41.77 aged 21y, what the hell do you think expectations were for '85/'86... ???
in the end no improvement from 21y
cruz had infinitely more expectation to improve his 1'41.7 than coe, but never came close again, as did coe
What IS far more unrealistic is your claim that a man of 20, almost 50 years ago was capable of running 3.5 faster than his 800 pb and 8 secs faster than his 1500pb, and should be the WR holder still.
moron
cruz ran 1'41.77 at 21y
rudy ran 1'42.01 at 20y
1'40.3/3'24.4 for ryun in '67 on a '70s track is helluva lot more likely than coe ever running 1'41.0 in '81
Hey ventolin, don't hold back - tell us what you really think!
As usual Ventolin plus in some numbers and always , always almost has someone running faster than they did or ever could.
The reality is , you are what you run, matters not what some f.ing formula says period.
I have seen every guy from Ryun, forward, Jim who ran 1:44.2 converted at least and 3:33.1 45 YEARS ago, with NO pacers
What the f do you think he would have run with help, so set the bar there , then move forward with your ridiculous formulas
Jim Ryun closed in 2:51.x for yards NOT meters, alone
I am not this, "live in the past guy"
But come on, the rest of this stuff is stupid shit, predicting times off some table
You run what you run
Every week I read this asurd horse shit about how fast someone could or would have run, at sea level, altitude, below ground it is insane
Any one of you who asks these questions to a number cruncher is asking for what may have, could have, some day may have did.
IT is ALL in the books
Ohhh and what temperature was it that day, oh my ., was the porridge too hot or too cold... run the race, look at the watch, it's en done for 50 years
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