webb 3:50.85

Great Race once again for WEBB. However what has happend to the rest of american middle distance runners. God sakes we suck outside of a few decent guys. Why the hell did it take 38 years for someone to run faster then Jim Ryans mile time. Look at the tracks , spikes, nutrition, scientific training and everything this generation has going for it. Ask me it ain't lack of talent here in America. It is lack of will and reasons to do what it takes to go to the top. Thank God Allan Webb gets it and a few others. However the Rest of these Generation X Suck. ..........We will be lucky to have only a handfull make the A standard for the Olymics......Pathetic.

You're acting like everyone in the 60's in the US was close to Ryun. They weren't. Just like no Americans now are close to Webb.

Maybe, but you would think with the tracks they have now and shoes , technology and all the great stuff runners have today. That we should have at least 5-10 sub 3:50 guys by now on american soil. It is pathetic today. Now post away at those of us who ran in the 1970's don't know shit. You were probably not even alive back then. I think we may know a thing or two more they you. I ll say it. Few if any run and race like they use too. Allan Webb is great and handfull few of other up incoming americans , but as a whole our md running sucks.

You forgot our Marathon times ain't that great either dude. A 2:14 in America today can almost make Olympic Team. Bet that was not the case back in the day Old timer.

Re: The last 109m

Three things:

First, the slower the pace in a 1500m, the greater chance that someone like Hesko or Lagat or Baala or Ngeny could outkick el Guerrouj. Similarly, the slower the race, the greater chance Willis could beat Webb. Although Webb may be stronger and have a stronger 400m kick, Willis, who has that outstanding, God-given ability to change gears (which some say el g lacks), very may well have a better 100m kick than Webb. Today, Willis gained 1.17 seconds, or about 10 meters on Webb, which is huge.

Second, after watching the race, it seems that Webb and Willis are currently not on the same level when it comes to a fast, rabbited mile. Further, Webb was the only one who had the guts to go for the win and a fast time, the others were content with second. For all intents and purposes Willis and Webb were not even running the same race, so it is very hard to make any judgement from this race except that Webb is in much better shape. But, Willis did separate himself even farther from Olympians Sully and McMullen in the last 109m, which has got to mean something.

Third, we have so far forgot to mention Julius "I could outkick God himself off of a slow pace" Achon. Did you see his last 109m? Now that was something. He's an animal, I'll say. Using my l09m-time logic, he is unstoppable in a slow 1500m.

People, his name is Alan, not ALLAN!!!!! jesus...

I will help you with your math, Mr Turtle. According to you, @ the 1500 mark, willis was ~32 meters back and he finished a total of 22.3 meters back, right?

Willis covers the last 109 in 15.31 seconds or 7.12 meters/second

Webb covers the last 109 in 16.43m seconds or 6.63 m/s.

All this nonsense = Webb won by over 20+ meters and almost 3 full seconds. Nobody was even close. Webb was faster than Willis today. Why analyse all this nonsense?

I think the other eye-opener tonight was Charlie Gruber holding off Lunn, Stember, and Said (his last name escapes me right now)in the last 600M to come home in 3:37 and change. Really ballsy race on his part and a nice PR (I think his old PR was around 3:39. He may be one to watch in the trials. I think he can drop at least 2 more seconds this season in the right race.

My predictions for the Trials 1500m 1st. Webb- 3:34, 2nd Gruber- 3:36, 3rd toss up between Lunn, Stember, or McMullin- 3:38

If Webb goes out hard like this then no US other runner has a chance to win.

during that close-up shot at 1000 m, did anybody else notice how much more relaxed webb was than rotich???

is ahmed a naturalized us citizen? they have him listed as USA in the results. the same question goes for achon.

Last time I checked, the goal of a race is to be the fastest over the full distance. Willis made up a second & still got beat by that much. Webb obviously is practicing racing off a fast pace & trying to hold on. Come the trials I imagine he'll just toy with the pre-lim guys & blast them the last 600 & then just blow the doors off everyone from the gun in the finals.

Said Ahmed ran for Boston English (I think?) in Massachusetts as a high school student. I don't know if he was born here or moved here at a young age but he is not a "foreign recruit" of McDonnell's like Mulvaney or Cragg. Ahmed was a beast in high school...and by beating Stember and Lunn (even if they don't always race well) he proves that he still is.

You're right...Willis does have a better chance at 1500 than at the mile...as do I. Neither of the chances are good, but they are what they are, chances.

Tinman wrote:

I imagine that Pre was like that to many people; a specatacle of drive, ferocity, determination, and willingness to cross the abyss: a place where you don't know if you will die or not, but you go onward anyway. Tinman

Very well put Tinman, I like that.

A lot of people are dissing on the pacing of Webb's race, but I think it's a positive. Running the first 1200 in 2:50 shows that he is hungry, and expects very fast times of himself. If his training continues to work as it has recently for him, then he will put that last lap together, especially if he has competition. If Webb can hold such expectations into Athens, he might suprise some people.

If you really want to see a big kick, watch Jim Ryun's 3:51 off of his website. I know its all coulda, shoulda, woulda, but if Ryun had those pacers that Webb had, who knows how fast he would have run that day.

Said did attend Boston English, which was a once strong urban high school that slid into mediocrity in the 70's. He was not born in the US. I don't know what his citizen status is. He ran around 1:51 in high school, and has developed very well at Arkansas. In high school he was nowhere as impressive as were other Massachusetts stars such as Jon Riley, Andy Powell, Franklyn Sanchez, or the current Victor Gras.

If you go back and watch the the race, Webbs face is extreamly relaxed. However, his stride has become very very choppy. Now it might have been him tying up with the early fast pace, But the way it looks is if he peaks and is able to run that last lap 3 seconds faster we might just have an American Record. It seems however that he wasn't totally opening up like he usually does. I think he can run faster still.

"Webb came through 400m in 54.9 seconds, 800 in 1:51, and 1,200 in 2:49. His finishing time was the fastest by an American in seven years (Steve Holman, 3:50.40 in 1997), and his 1,500m split of 3:34.42 is faster than any other American has run for that distance in 2004. Nick Willis of New Zealand was a distant second behind Webb in 3:53.51, with Kenyan Elkanah Angwenyi third in 3:54.52."