How do classical musicians take DJ/Techno "musicians" seriously?

both require thousands of hours of practice to be good.

The elements of music are uniform everywhere.

Just because you need to pay a lot of money for an instrument does not mean the music is any better

Making music on a computer does not take thousands of hours of practice to be good. To make music on a computer you need to understand music and be proficient with some type of commercial software. There is limited technique involved which is the aspect of music that requires the most practice.

I would say that classical musicians could take that type of music seriously by appreciating the notes and rhythm without being overly concerned with how they were produced. It is difficult to compose good music and one need not be proficient at an instrument to do it.

tsk tsk tsk wrote:

One requires incredible amounts of talent and skill, the other can be learned readily by anyone, and is the favorite music choice of demon-possessed drug addicts and morons.

As a classically trained musician (one with a liberal view of music at that), I can tell you without hesitation that classical musicians do NOT appreciate DJ/Techno musicians at all. I would count myself as not appreciating their musical ability. I DO appreciate the fact that they are able to use technology to produce music that many young kids want to hear (my 11-year-old son being one of them), but I do not take them seriously as "musicians".

I would even go so far as to say most (as in more than half) of classically trained musicians do not appreciate even blues musicians at all, for their thought is that if you didn't learn to read and write standard notation that you are not a musician. Of course I disagree with this. I can read and write music in standard notation, but mostly I play by ear these days and don't rely on sheet music at all and haven't for years. My argument to anyone who says otherwise is "Stevie Wonder?" "Jeff Healey?" They never read a note of music.

What do DJs exactly do on stage during live shows? They're always acting busy and pushing buttons and stuff.

Classical musicians take techno/DJs seriously for what they do, not what the do not do. Techno/DJs make a form of pop music. Most of them make music for people to danse to at big parties. Some techno artists take what they do very seriously and produce some very interesting, innovative and expressive music.

But classical music and techno/DJ is apples and oranges. No one would ever argue that a techno/DJ artist performs on the level of a classical musician. For example, a trumpet player in a symphony orchestra needs tons of talent, experience, practice and nerves of steel to be able to perform the big solo in Mussorgsky/Ravel's Pictures at an Exhibition (Goldberg and Schumlye or the promenades) with a major symphony orchestra. Nothing compares to that in the techno/DJ world. But classical musicians do not see themselves as superior because they understand that the music world is diverse and full of lots of different ways to make music that do not need to compete for comparison. The royal drummers of Burundi could never sit in with Wayne Shorter, but are still amazing musicians in their own way. Artur Rubinstein could never do what Jelly Roll Morton did and vice a versa. That doesn't mean that one is necessarily better than the other. Classical music is about achieving the ultimate level of perfection and expression. In other idioms, expression, tradition, custom and other values are prized over technical perfection. That is what makes music interesting.

Actually neither REQUIRE thousands of hours of practice to be good. A lot of Classical Music is actually quite easy if you just take 15 minutes a day for a year or so to learn scales and get a good tone. But I think your point is that any music is as sophisticated as you want to make it. I agree with that.

Lyndon Larouche wrote:

both require thousands of hours of practice to be good.

The elements of music are uniform everywhere.

Just because you need to pay a lot of money for an instrument does not mean the music is any better

Most of the classical musicians I know don't bother themselves with such thoughts.

Their personal listening habits are not limited to classical. Some do like "dance" music.

Flagpole wrote:

As a classically trained musician (one with a liberal view of music at that), I can tell you without hesitation that classical musicians do NOT appreciate DJ/Techno musicians at all. I would count myself as not appreciating their musical ability. I DO appreciate the fact that they are able to use technology to produce music that many young kids want to hear (my 11-year-old son being one of them), but I do not take them seriously as "musicians".

I don't take classically trained musicians very seriously as "people with jobs"; whenever anyone tells me they're a classically trained musician I take that to mean they rent a tuxedo and play cello at three weddings a year and the rest of the time they're a waiter or something

tsk tsk tsk wrote:

One requires incredible amounts of talent and skill, the other can be learned readily by anyone, and is the favorite music choice of demon-possessed drug addicts and morons.

I assume this is a troll. But you must not be familiar with a lot of electronic music. If you are talking about the house-pop stuff that has become popular these days than you may have an argument. However, most established electronic artists are trained in classical piano as well as other instruments.

So "techo" musicians are actually classical musicians in a way.

All electronic music isn't techno or formulaic club music. Listen to some EDM outside of the David Guetta pop/terrible dubstep that's popular right now; you can create interesting and unique music in any format. Creating a legitimately good song takes talent and work in any genre.

I doubt classically-trained musicians think about techno much. And the guy who dismisses those who say they're classically-trained as guys who play at a few weddings is a bit daft. There are still orchestras doing gigs out there in concert halls and such.

Wow Unbelievable wrote:

I doubt classically-trained musicians think about techno much. And the guy who dismisses those who say they're classically-trained as guys who play at a few weddings is a bit daft. There are still orchestras doing gigs out there in concert halls and such.

Yeah and most of them are part time or volunteer, and the competition for a position in the major orchestras is obscene

music is for liberal art major queers anyways!

The thought of you speaking for classically trained musicians is laughable.

Autechre wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLK70Ipe-tI&feature=related

Damn, that took me to another place entirely. I will have to listen to more. I'd heard that Radiohead claims to have been influenced heavily by Autechre, which explains a lot of their transition to/usage of electronic music.

Related, I own Entroducing... by DJ Shadow and that is a genuine piece of sonic art.

I've never been a "house" music fan, but there is some really good electronic music out there. It really isn't surprising.

classicly trained says nothing about creative ability.

A lot of classic musician can only play music from sheets and stuf.

Then there are a lot a shitty dj's or producers.

The original poster doesn't know anything about music otherwise you will state differently.

Some people write music. (on an intrument or computer)

Others play music

Some play and write

And some you like and i don't

Do you know that 99% of the orkest you hear in movies are actually produced on a computer using (multi) samples.

Also that a lot of drums in studio live recordings are programmed but your not able to hear it.

i rest my case.

Go learn to play an intrument idiot!

the circus wrote:

What do DJs exactly do on stage during live shows? They're always acting busy and pushing buttons and stuff.

The explosion of danceable pop music like David Guetta and Avicii has given real DJs a bad name. Real club DJs know a thing or two about track selection and the keys of songs to make a seamless mix. Kids today just go to DJ gigs and treat them like concerts. Often the sets are pre-recorded and the mixing skills are terrible, leading to the DJ pumping his fists in the air for an hour or so.

Is ^this^ what you mean