Key workouts indicating sub4

Sounds like a Jeff Johnson work out...or something that Jason Lunn would do.

PCRG wrote:

No, this wasn't a joke. My coach has me work on different systems during each workout. Mondays are medium intervals, Wednesdays are short intervals, and Saturdays are long tempos.

I haven't raced in a really long time and I don't quite know what to expect. Until then I'm just trying to not get injured while keeping up the workouts. The guy I do most of my longer stuff with is a ~28:20/13:40 10k/5k guy while the guys I do shorter stuff with are 1:46 800m guys. Either way I'm embarrassingly outclassed whenever I show up to practice. (Especially in the shorter intervals). As such it's hard to really gauge the level I'm at individually. Thanks for the input.

I'm no elite coach, but I've run national-class times along with teammates and coached some decent high schoolers. If I were your coach, I'd be bumping those 200's up and dropping the overall volume of your short intervals (maybe 15x300 in 46-42). You've run eight kilometers at 4:00 pace with little rest. It's time to up the speed and lower the volume. I do love the approach your coach is using, but this is extreme. I'd also have to ask you if your seven miler was a tempo and not a race. I think a ton of people over-extend themselves on a tempo effort (but still call it a 'tempo' because it was a long, continuous effort in practice). Another thing (related to above) is if you're over-extending yourself in general - since you said you workout with 1:46 guys on one end and 28:20 guys on the other. Are you beating yourself up every workout just to keep up?

You'll probably want to remain anonymous, so I'll just ask if you run for a well-established program (I'd assume so based on the qualifications of your training partners). If so, have some faith in your coach. But Christ, you're fit. You may take a few races to show it since you haven't raced for a while (racing is a skill that needs to be worked on to get right), but you'll have a great season. Good luck.

Good call buddy! Jeff is/was a phenomenal coach - he gave me that workout before I broke 3:40 for the first time and got 4th at Trials in 2000. I continued that workout with Gags...

Great thread. Bump.

Thank you very much for your comments, useabe. To answer your questions:-Yes, I run for well-known coach. Unfortunately my academic obligations often force me to train at odd hours.-My first race isn't for another 3 weeks, but the high- quality/low-quantity days are definitely coming soon.-The 7-miler was harder than a normal tempo and easier than a race. In other words, a good effort/rhythm without straining or having to pump my arms much. Most of the other "tempo" efforts I do are at 5:30 pace but I go for much longer (e.g. 15 miles).-The workouts are consistently tough but I almost always feel light on my feet the next day. (Probably due to the consistent mileage). The two times I felt the most beat up in recent months were when I was pushed on a 16 mile mountain trail run averaging 6:10, and when I tried to do 400 repeats in 57s with the 800 guys... and could only keep up for 6 of the 12 intervals before completely blowing up. (It was quite humbling).If I ever reach my goal I'll bump this thread in a meaningful way.Take care,PCRG

The workout that has always been a breakthrough for my athletes has been the age old classic. It's brutal, but highly effective.

4 mile tempo@20 minutes

12x400@60 w/60sec rest interval

2x400@58 w/60sec rest

2x400@56 w/60sec rest

Viking Quest wrote:

I broke 4 several times, and my key indicator workout to show I was fit was:

6 X 400m in 61 with 30 sec rest (slightly faster than my "3K pace" even though I had never run one)

mile slow jog (change from flats to spikes)

6 X 400m in 57 with 60 sec rest (my goal pace for the 1500m)

I would do this 6 days before a big competition, and I would feel great.

An educated guess - Tom Byers?

Distance Maniac wrote:

The workout that has always been a breakthrough for my athletes has been the age old classic. It's brutal, but highly effective.

4 mile tempo@20 minutes

12x400@60 w/60sec rest interval

2x400@58 w/60sec rest

2x400@56 w/60sec rest

This is way over the top for 4:00

10x400 @ 60 with 60 rest (200 jog) will do it.

Actually I've noticed that the "classic" 10x400 is conspicuously absent (or at least not very common) in this thread, which confirms some of my suspicions about mile training.

Though not necessarily an indicator, 10 x 400 was always a staple of mine.

At my peak, I was usually right at 57-58 secs with 1 minute rest. Some of the guys training in Eugene at the time would take 2 minutes. 60sec/60 sec seems as if it might be a good benchmark for sub 4 fitness. I remember reading somewhere that 20 x 440yd in 60/60 was a Ryun commonplace.

No, it’s Jason.

Somerandomdude-

Can you tell me what the time period was before you progressed to the next level of callousing. For example, when did you decide it was time to move from the 15 x 200 session to the 300 session in your progression? Thanks.

This is a good thread and full of good options.

I believe that the key workouts should be the longer intervals- I particularly like 1200 in 3 min plus something else-perhaps 2x400@58 or 600@1:30. I also like the 3x800 with the last one being the fastest.

I never did bulk 200s but I simply don't believe in them as a key workout. For example I have coached two guys with good leg speed who could easily run 16x200 in 28 but neither is under 3:50 for 1500 yet.

Distance Maniac wrote:

The workout that has always been a breakthrough for my athletes has been the age old classic. It's brutal, but highly effective.

4 mile tempo@20 minutes

12x400@60 w/60sec rest interval

2x400@58 w/60sec rest

2x400@56 w/60sec rest

How many people on planet earth can complete this workout