Has feminism become synonymous with misandry?

I some of you guys should stop being so sensitive. If your biggest concern is that woman don't have to register for the draft (I'm not sure if you've noticed, but there hasn't been one in a while) I think its safe to say your not suffering under the thumb of feminist rule. On the whole woman have it much worse than men. They make 75 cents on the dollar compared to men (when working in similar positions) and they are far more likely to be victims of rape and domestic violence. And frankly (as a dude) sexual attitudes towards women in this fair land are pretty f'ed up. So yes, that super militant feminist in your freshman dorm who thought all sex was rape was super annoying, but don't let that blind you to the facts on the ground.

Chello! wrote:

I some of you guys should stop being so sensitive. If your biggest concern is that woman don't have to register for the draft (I'm not sure if you've noticed, but there hasn't been one in a while) I think its safe to say your not suffering under the thumb of feminist rule. On the whole woman have it much worse than men. They make 75 cents on the dollar compared to men (when working in similar positions) and they are far more likely to be victims of rape and domestic violence. And frankly (as a dude) sexual attitudes towards women in this fair land are pretty f'ed up. So yes, that super militant feminist in your freshman dorm who thought all sex was rape was super annoying, but don't let that blind you to the facts on the ground.

Women aren't actually more likely to be victims of domestic violence. Even if a woman is whaling on a man, if he calls the cops, they'll probably arrest him (or if he's lucky, just laugh in his face and tell him to man up.) Rape gets real interesting once you throw in prison rape. Even if you don't it's closer than you think. Every other kind of violence is disproportionately directed at men.

The wage gap is a myth. The 75% figure you pulled out of your ass is, at best, what you get before controlling for the fact that men disproportionately take the majors that lead to better-paying jobs, take the riskiest, most physically demanding jobs, and so forth. (http://blogs.payscale.com/ask_dr_salary/2009/12/do-men-or-women-choose-majors-to-maximize-income.html summarizes.) That's also why above 90% of workplace deaths are male, so you win some and you lose some.

Men are punished more harshly for the same crimes under the same circumstances. If Casey Anthony had been named Kevin Anthony, the whole nation would be cheering to fry him -- and he would be fried. And let's not even talk about "family court".

Overall, American men die younger than their counterpart women by about six years on average, so how is it that women have it worse than men again?

I'll give you that sexual attitudes in general are pretty screwed up.

To add to the previous poster's comments, young single women in a lot of big cities are making more than single men these days. At most universities, the population is composed of something like 60% women, 40% men or close, yet there are still women's centers and many more women-only academic scholarships. Women are outnumbering men in traditional male-dominated programs such as law and medicine at most schools these days as well. If you want to get a government job, with nice predictable 8 hr days and great benefits, you are far more likely to be hired in many professions if you are a woman or minority than a white male.

Older generations of men and women don't seem to get this fact, as men had it pretty good a couple of decades ago, but things are changing... Wait until all of the 20-year olds have moved up into their prime earning years in their 50s and 60s. I wouldn't be surprised if all of the college-educated women will be dominating in politics and business. I think that feminism is mostly a good thing, but that it has gone too far. For instance, having Title IX requirements in sports to give equal opportunities for women seems pretty bogus when you consider that nothing is being done to ensure than men have equal numbers of male-only academic scholarships, men's centers (total BS, but whatever) or programs to help men on their career path the way that women and minorities have, especially in fields such as engineering.

I think this thread has only further confirmed some people's perceptions of feminists. The few we have on here seem very angry, bitter, and selective in what data they want to pay attention to. The inability to communicate calmly, articulately, and objectively will never help your position, no matter what the subject is. I'll try and go through some info and personal experiences. I'm not compalining as I think most of these things aren't really huge issues (to me anyway).

As a male, I've had women be violent with me, and I knew my only defense was to leave because if I reciprocated in any way I could be arrested. I also know the women were being violent because they thought as women they had that right. In one case the woman hit me four times, I told her to stop after each time, and then I finally pushed her away from me (at about 1/4 strength). She then accused me of being abusive (though not to the cops thank goodness). I remember watching a news segment on this kind of stuff years ago. There was one case where the woman stabbed her husband with car keys bad enough that he had to go to the emergency room, and the police did nothing. Stuff like that might not be the norm, but it happens. That's not equality.

As others have said, women get less severe sentences in the court room.

I frequently see internships and grants being advertised for minorities and females. When looking at online internships last year, most had pictures of their interns from previous years. The ratio of women to men was routinely between 6:4 and 7:3, and of the males, usually 0-1 were white.

As for the wage gap, if you consider all factors, it's actually been very well explained. On average men work more hours for the same pay, take fewer vacation days, are more likely to work in the private sector, are more likely to stay at the same job or at least in the same field thus gaining experience and tenure, work more dangerous jobs, take on more stressful projects, etc. If I was an employer, I'd pay Employee A more than Employee B if A worked 10hrs more per week and took half as many sick days regardless of sex, race, etc. I could go on about my experiences working with men and women and the amount of conflict with both, but I won't.

Then there is the whole "girl power" attitude where it's seen as good and acceptable to have women only TED talks, women only this and that, special programs to encourage girls/women, quotas, all the breast cancer fundraising (despite it being one of the least deadly forms of cancer) and songs like Beyonce's "Girls, we run the world" stuff. Again, I have no beef with any of these things and don't see them as issues in my life at all, but it's kind of silly to say women are constantly being hated on and discrimated against when there are so many things which favor them and cator to them. You don't see men-only conventions very often (never?).

Women almost always get more money/assets in divorces. They also almost always get greater custody.

Women Studies is essentially Man-Bashing 101, at least from what I've been told by the dozen women I've talked to who took the class (haven't talked to any guys who took it). There's a big difference between studying/celebrating the female condition and accomplishment and hating on men. (I found the same to be true in my African-American Studies class. More time was spent on why white people suck than about actual study of African-Americans.) Though other fields of study are male dominated, I've never read anything misogynistic in any textbook. Sometimes there are actually sections devoted specifically to women in the field.

Door holding seems like a non-issue because I hold doors for people regardless of sex, ethnicity, hair color, etc. However, I will say I virtually never have a man drop a door on me, while it happens almost daily with women. Why this is I don't know. I still think this is a non-issue.

...

All that being said, we still have things like "make me a sandwhich" and "kitchen" memes, which are disrespectful towards women specifically. Women sports generally don't gain a lot of attention or cause a lot of excitement, which probably effects women's psyche in some negative way. There are also more men in high positions, which probably affects the way women view their own potential. There a lot of issues associated with pregnancy and childbearing and childrearing, but these are consquences of biology, not products of society. Getting angry with men for having to carry a child for nine months is like getting angry at women about only having one X chromosome and thus being more susceptible to genetic diseases. It's just the way it is and is nobody's fault. I will say female biology does create much more inconveniences and obstacles than men's however, and is probably the real issue in the whole gender equality discussion. Having a child is much more of an investment for a woman than for a man and is probably the main thing which limits women in their advancement. Again, this is a product of biology, not society. Society has worked to make this less of an issue, but it's there and always will be unless women decide to adopt or have surrogate mothers. I could go on.

I'm not a woman, so I don't know what it's like to be one, even though I try hard to understand other people's perspectives.

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I'm getting tired or writing, so I'll finish up here. Feminism has done a LOT of good, but I think there are a lot of "feminists" today which do more harm to their cause than good and fail to look at things objectively. As mentioned, the hating on women who take on traditional roles is probably counter-productive. Denying science is another that only makes them look ignorant and incapable of logic... I kind of feel like feminism is like the current Republican party in that it's been somewhat overtaken by ignorant and irrational radicals, and these people overshadow the true cause of the less vocal, more rational people. Feminists are kind of like atheists as well in that the loudmouths kind of ruin it for everyone as people's perceptions are based only on the psychos they see on tv or have known in real life. The "feminists" I've known who are outspoken about their feminism have been the most unpleasant individuals I've ever known, as well as the most sexist. Anyone who is very outspoken about atheism (or religion) is likely to annoy me even though I'm atheist and likely agree with their positions. The same goes for feminists. I agree with most of their (original) goals, but I will find anyone annoying who dramatizes small issues, fails to be objective, gets angry over everything, and tries to shove their views down other people's throats.

Wow, I wrote a ton and feel like I could have written more. I didn't realize how much I could say about this.

I never thought I'd ever say something like this, but we need to bump that flagpole Criteria for a Real Man post.

Geez, cheer up and man up!!! If you are a male in the US your life is not that cruel and unusual. Really.

No, I hate men and women equally.

Interesting thing about male v female in assault. I've been doing legal research today (for an assignment) on assault and the height and weight is always a factor REGARDLESS of whether male or female. Actually I've only read cases with men and the bigger male is almost always charged and the conviction always considers not just the force used, but also the difference in height and weight compared to the complainant. Even, or maybe especially, in self-defense, the bigger guy can't use self-defense as a defense. They just cannot sell that to a judge.

Find a domestic case where the woman is much larger and it might not be the same, but I've rarely seen a man be with a woman that was larger than him.

My two big beefs with feminism:

Women want to own their pregnancies. They have all of the power as far as whether they have the baby yet expect men to pay thousands if not millions of dollars in childsupport.

Second, I neve hear women complain about the draft. Women who are reading this, do you realize that I sign my life away at the age of 18 should the federal govt decide to go to war? What do I get in return for that? Nothing. Not a goddamn thing. Why do I never hear of feminists campaigning against the draft?

Selective equality is not equality.

Ghhjl wrote:

Second, I neve hear women complain about the draft. Women who are reading this, do you realize that I sign my life away at the age of 18 should the federal govt decide to go to war? What do I get in return for that? Nothing. Not a goddamn thing. Why do I never hear of feminists campaigning against the draft?

Selective equality is not equality.

I'll willingly sign up for a draft and fight on the front lines when and if a female president is serving in office and declares war. Until then, you men can wage and battle your own wars.

Ghhjl wrote:

My two big beefs with feminism:

Women want to own their pregnancies. They have all of the power as far as whether they have the baby yet expect men to pay thousands if not millions of dollars in childsupport.

Selective equality is not equality.

Simple solution #222: don't get a woman pregnant.

Next?

Misandrist wrote:

Ghhjl wrote:

My two big beefs with feminism:

Women want to own their pregnancies. They have all of the power as far as whether they have the baby yet expect men to pay thousands if not millions of dollars in childsupport.

Selective equality is not equality.

Simple solution #222: don't get a woman pregnant.

Next?

Do you even listen to yourself? Are you actually serious when you write this stuff? Let's consider another situation:

Women getting beaten by their husbands.

Your solution: don't marry abusive men. Problem solved! Man, women who choose to get beaten sure are dumb!

That's about how stupid you sound.

you for real, bro? wrote:

Do you even listen to yourself? Are you actually serious when you write this stuff? Let's consider another situation:

Women getting beaten by their husbands.

Your solution: don't marry abusive men. Problem solved! Man, women who choose to get beaten sure are dumb!

That's about how stupid you sound.

I think anyone who allows themselves to be beaten is lacking sensibility. That includes the men here who claim to be victims of domestic abuse.

snarky darky doo wrote:

Ghhjl wrote:

Second, I neve hear women complain about the draft. Women who are reading this, do you realize that I sign my life away at the age of 18 should the federal govt decide to go to war? What do I get in return for that? Nothing. Not a goddamn thing. Why do I never hear of feminists campaigning against the draft?

Selective equality is not equality.

I'll willingly sign up for a draft and fight on the front lines when and if a female president is serving in office and declares war. Until then, you men can wage and battle your own wars.

No offense but your 'logic' is dumber than dirt.

1) There are more women eligible to vote than men. Since voters are the ultimate deciders of power it is women who have the final say in who serves as president and thus whether or not we go to war. As a result, it is obviously reasonable that only women should be drafted to serve and leave us men out of it.

2) Really, though, the gender of the person in office is irrelevant (unless of course you want to be held responsible for every sin committed by every member of your gender). Now before you go spouting something stupid about males committing more/worse crimes I'll save you from yourself by pointing out that it makes no difference - you are responsible for yourself and your own actions, not those of other members of your gender, regardless of which gender you belong to.

Please try to use some logic in your posts next time.

Thanks.

snarky darky doo wrote:

I'll willingly sign up for a draft and fight on the front lines when and if a female president is serving in office and declares war. Until then, you men can wage and battle your own wars.

So if Hillary had won the election, then you and WOMAN ONLY should have fought the rest of the battles in Iraq and Afghanistan? (she was a supporter of those conflicts by the way) ?? I mean, if only men should die in wars led by a male commander in chief, then only woman should die in wars led by a female commander in chief, correct? Hey, it's YOUR logic, not mine.

(but I would like to say something on the issue of domestic violence: the men on this thread that are acting like there is not really much of a difference between the levels of male on female vs female on male domestic violence are insane. The difference is astronomical. One of the leading causes of death of pregnant woman is murder, almost always by a man they know. One of the leading causes of death of all young women is also murder [again by men they know]. 9 out of 10 times you watch a true murder "mystery" on dateline or some such show, it's really no mystery: the husband killed the wife because she was divorcing him, or he wanted life insurance $, or he had a girlfriend on the side, or some combination of the aforementioned. Bottom line: men are, on the average, incredibly violent towards their women. Now we could argue about what it is about women that drives men to such rage, but......that's besides the point. The point is: there is absolutely no comparison between the violence of men against woman vs women against men. Anyone saying otherwise is in complete denial and a liar.)

Both men and women don't wanna sign up for the Draft.

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

So if Hillary had won the election, then you and WOMAN ONLY should have fought the rest of the battles in Iraq and Afghanistan? (she was a supporter of those conflicts by the way) ?? I mean, if only men should die in wars led by a male commander in chief, then only woman should die in wars led by a female commander in chief, correct? Hey, it's YOUR logic, not mine.

Sure. Sounds good.

Remind me again, exactly how many wars in human history have been declared by female leaders?

You must never watch "snapped".

Also, it's not that women drive men to rage, it's that men are inherently more violent as part of their biology because this trait has been selected for. I think the claim was that men are victims of violence roughly equal to women, which is probably correct. Men might even be victims of violence more than women. Most of that violence is probably male on male. The arguments have also been on how male on female vs female on male violence is handled, not on which occurs more. Even if that was what was being argued, I can guarentee you more male on female violent acts are going to be reported than female on male, so the statistics are going to be heavily skewed.

hmmmmmmm