weird coaching theory

Don't worry about your coach. Just do what works. All training principles for distance running are well known and are available for free over the internet or via books. Don't pay a coach or, if he/she is free, don't bother with them.

If talking to him doesn't work try to sneak in a lot more easy mileage (either in doubles or after practice). Once a week try to get a 20-30 minute harder effort (maybe low 6 min pace for you... Just something comfortably hard, or tempo pace). Do his fast workouts but maybe hold back and go current mile pace. As for the 800 and 400 all out, I don't think its a good idea at all but I guess racing on the weekend and on Wednesday can't be the worst thing if you are only doing one other workout with him.

Well what exactly is the problem with his coaching? Seems like some good in/mid season workouts.

i'm in high school so it's not like i can just get a new coach

Why are you doing workouts right now? May / June is a long time from now. Threshold run, mileage and some strides is best.

777777 wrote:

Don't worry about your coach. Just do what works. All training principles for distance running are well known and are available for free over the internet or via books. Don't pay a coach or, if he/she is free, don't bother with them.

Says the multi-time world-record holder for all distances under a marathon - not!

Not having a coach works for some, but not many, and certainly no high schooler (like the OP) has the wisdom (as opposed to knowledge) to coach themselves.

Talk to the coach - if the program doesn't fit YOU, then you have to either supplement your training (on your own), look for a new coach - which might mean leaving the team, or take up a different sport. Life is about choices, which aren't always pleasant.

There's nothing necessarily "weird" about this other than the minimal mileage and the 2 hard days in a row. I'm sure your coach it catering to the less-advanced runners, but he shouldn't have a problem with you running more if he's a good coach. You could almost double this whole schedule. Here's how I'd do it:

Monday: 90 minute easy long run

Tuesday: 2 mile warm-up, 8x400 with 400 jog rest between each, 2 mile cool-down.

Wednesday: 40 minute easy run

Thursday: 2 mile warm-up, all-out 800, 20 minute rest, including a slow 800-1600m jog, all-out 400, 2 mile cool-down.

Friday: rest

Saturday: 20 minute shake-out

Sunday: 2 mile warm-up, 1 mile race, 2 mile cool-down

That gives you 40+ mpw just doing the singles. You can do doubles to add more mileage. Just keep the additional miles EASY.

and certainly no high schooler (like the OP) has the wisdom

I couldn't disagree more. But I respect your opinion.

The next Huck Finn wrote:

Why are you doing workouts right now? May / June is a long time from now. Threshold run, mileage and some strides is best.

What's so important about May/June? He's likely not making state/regionals with a 4:49

OP...

Other than the comment that "less is more' you did not describe the 'weird coaching theory' or philosophy. You only gave a listing of one week of training. What is his theory on coaching? Does he follow a Daniel's approach or more like a Lydiard (I guess not) or Galloway system? Or did a genie give it to him after he rubbed the magic lantern? What makes it weird?

Does he train through indoor to get ready for the real racing in the spring? Did you run cross the build your endurance base?

You admit "I am not that good." Perhaps your coach is trying to get you to a fitness level where you can really start training.

If you feel need more volume, get up before school and go run. Pretty simple.

Just sayin dude wrote:

Well what exactly is the problem with his coaching? Seems like some good in/mid season workouts.

Sure, other than that he pretty much raced twice. Don't race workouts if you want to compete in actual races.

ddmoiokmdwo wrote:

I am starting not to trust my coach's workouts and things he says to do regarding running. He is more of a 800m/400m coach and I am a miler. For example this is what we did this week:

Monday: 45 minute run

Tuesday: 8x400 at 69 with 3 minute rest

Wednesday: All out 800m, 20 minute rest, all out 400m

Today: 20 minute run

Tomorrow: 10 minute run

Saturday: Rest

Sunday: Race (mile)

My PR is 4:49. (Yes I know I am not that good) I got my PR in outdoors last spring and it was with a different coach who does more volume and distance which helps me a lot more. So far I have just hovered around 5 flat the whole indoor season. I just want to know what you think of the coach I have now. He is sort of a "less is more" type of coach.

Training looks fine to me. You're in HS. Relax.

The only things I would change are instead of running the 800 all out, go 2:25 (relaxed... striding) & double the 10 minute run to 20 minutes. Or do it, go home and run 3 miles.

2 hard days in a row is a Deniels thing. Plenty of reasons to do it like that, as explained in his book.

I would recommend doing more mileage and not racing workouts. Also, why in the hell do you have two hard days in a row? Here's what I would do:

Mon: 45 minute run + strides

Tues: Max VO2 workout, I'll explain later.

Wed: 45 minute run + strides

Thurs: 1 mile warm up, 4 strides, 3 mile tempo @ 6:15 pace, 1 mile cool down

Fri: 45 minute run + strides

Sat: off or do an easy shakeout run

Sun: race

Max VO2: To find your Max VO2 pace, it's 85% of your mile race pace, so for you it would be 85 per 400. Max VO2 workouts are usually higher in terms of volume than an interval workout, with less rest, and with a lower effort level. An example of a Max VO2 workout would be this: 1200-1100-1000-900-800-700-600 meters, all at 85 per 400 pace, with a 1 minute rest between reps. Obviously do a mile warm up and a mile cool down.

On weeks where you don't have a race on Sunday, do a long run of 10 or 11 miles on Sunday, make sure to keep the pace easy though. You should be doing a long run every week. Your biggest problem as far as I can see is mileage, I have no idea why your coach is having you do so little mileage. A word of advice: build up your mileage SLOWLY. Do not try to jack your mileage up suddenly, that'll just get you injured.

This makes much better sense.

I could not get the reasoning behind having a runner doing 8 x 400 on Tuesday and then coming back with an all put 800-400 the next day.

At a meta level though why is the coach having the runner do three hard workouts a week ( including the race )?

I think it is more like 1:1 recovery on max V02 reps.

banga,

What you say is the rule of thumb but what skeptic described as max VO2 is much slower than work that requires 1:1 recovery.

=900W83A alf wrote:

banga,

What you say is the rule of thumb but what skeptic described as max VO2 is much slower than work that requires 1:1 recovery.

Yeah you really don't need 4 minutes of recovery after running 1200 meters in 5:40 pace.

OP: When is your peak race? About 8 weeks out from your peak race I would suggest that you start doing some hard intervals on the track. E.g. 12 x 400 in 72 with 1 minute recovery, 8 x 600 in 1:55 with 1:15 recovery, etc. Continue doing weekly tempo runs and long runs and try to get your mileage up - those are the keys to success.

ddmoiokmdwo wrote:

i'm in high school so it's not like i can just get a new coach

But nothing is stopping you increasing the distance of a couple of your runs if you fell like it