Currently the top runner for an average D3 program. Considering transferring to a D1 school where I could walk-on but would be one of the slower runners on the team. Anyone have any experience in either situation? Both schools are solid academically. I understand this is pretty dependent on the program, school, individual, etc.
Some things to consider:
1) How confident are you in your current coaches ability to develop you?
2) Do you get to race at competitive meets now?
3) How much do you like your teammates?
4) Will you get enough attention from the coach at the other school if you are one of the slower runners? (Some coaches are great about focusing on all their athletes, some don't care at all about anyone outside the top 7.)
I think the team atmosphere can be a lot better at DIII schools sometimes because they tend to have larger teams. Personally, I'd rather be running with 20-25 DIII guys that I know I like than be running with a dozen DI guys who I might not gel with. Unless you have a shitty coach now, don't get to run in any big meets with DI runners (which most DIII programs do), or are already dominating all of DIII, you won't be selling yourself short by staying where you are. Remember, going to a DI just for the bragging rights is not a good decision.
Personally, I ran for a large and very close-knit DIII team under an excellent coach undergrad and went on to use a season of eligibility as a grad student running on a small DI team under a mediocre coach. I had a lot more fun running for the DIII team, and outside of the conference and regional meets, the competition level was basically the same.
Did they get you to trade
your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
Did you exchange a walk-on part in a war
for a lead role in a cage?
If you like actually racing, stay with D3. I knew walk ons at D1 schools were just about as fast as me in high school but they NEVER raced for their team in college. They raced unattached. I ran for a very good D3 school and had tons of memorable races.
which one has better coaching.
is the d1 school a good distance program, because if it's way better than your current school then you have a good chance to get much better.
i personally would do whatever made me the best runner.
What about equal PR's? Would you rather run 3:47 for division I or division III? How about 14:15 for 5k? I'm trying to go off of the division I regional qualifying marks. Basically, qualifying for the regional meet for division I is the type of performance that guarantees a top 3 national finish for division III. What would you choose?
If you think you can continue to improve where you are, stay.
If you transfer and end up improving but still not being one of the better runners it'll be frustrating, it'll be even more frustrating if the new program isn't a good fit.
I'm currently an average D1 runner that heavily considered running D3 and its very frustrating to see where my times now would land me in D3 when they're getting me nowhere in D1. I didn't qualify for ECACs but would likely qualify for NCAAs in D3, its frustrating to see my season end at conference.
pursuit of happiness wrote:
Currently the top runner for an average D3 program. Considering transferring to a D1 school where I could walk-on but would be one of the slower runners on the team. Anyone have any experience in either situation? Both schools are solid academically. I understand this is pretty dependent on the program, school, individual, etc.
Being the top runner on an average D3 program does not make you a star. Being a walk-on in D1 doesn't mean you suck. But I would rather be a star in D3 than an average walk-on in D1.
+1 to this.
qualifying as a "star" in d3 means roughly the following equivalents:
<1:52, <4:10(mile), <9:02, <14:25, <~24:45 8k, <30:30
being a walk on in a d1 program could mean being like a a 2:02, 4:30, 16min guy at a lot of d1 programs.
given the way you asked the question, i would rather be a d3 "star" and be faster.
Thanks everyone for the thoughtful feedback.
thomyorkeownsyou wrote:
Being the top runner on an average D3 program does not make you a star. Being a walk-on in D1 doesn't mean you suck. But I would rather be a star in D3 than an average walk-on in D1.
For clarification, the idea behind the hypothetical situation ("star" vs. "walk-on") is assuming the same initial PRs. I wouldn't classify myself as a D3 star with my current credentials, I just wanted to elaborate a little on my situation to filter the feedback a bit.
Everyone forgets about d2. Come run at Columbus State University with me!
pursuit of happiness wrote:
Currently the top runner for an average D3 program. Considering transferring to a D1 school where I could walk-on but would be one of the slower runners on the team. Anyone have any experience in either situation? Both schools are solid academically. I understand this is pretty dependent on the program, school, individual, etc.
Since neither means you're likely loaded with running talent, I would go to where the education you'll receive most fits with your career goals. Seriously.
I actually did this during college - went from DIII to DI. It was somewhat of a disaster, and I ended up going back to my DIII school. I wish I never left, though I might not have known that had I not tried it.
I have also coached in DIII and DI. I am currently a DI coach, and despite that, I am far more fond of DIII and the way athletes are developed. I think DIII athletes, on average, have a better experience because more of them have an opportunity to be successful, boost their confidence, etc. When I coached in a really high level DI program, I felt really bad for the kids at the back of the team. The (very high profile) head coach treated those kids like they were total scrubs, was kind of nice to them to their faces, but behind their backs, he would say horrible stuff about them. They didn't know that, but I'm sure they felt it in the way he interacted (or didn't interact) with them. I often thought about how much better off those kids would be in the DIII programs in which I had previously coached.
I think that a lot of DIII stars think they could be so much better if they were running DI, and that may be the case sometimes, but I also think there's some element of DIII being responsible for or aiding their success, whether or not they realize it.
It completely depends on the schools and your individual situation, but I think DIII undeservedly gets a bad rap. As a coach, I'd MUCH rather coach at a high level DIII school than a medium to low level DI school, despite the fact that DI is generally considered to be more glamorous.
Flagpole wrote:
Since neither means you're likely loaded with running talent, I would go to where the education you'll receive most fits with your career goals. Seriously.
Totally agree here. If you're talking about just being able to walk on to a D1 school, you don't have the talent to ever make anything financially out of running, so it should not really be part of the decision.
You might be able to train with people in D1 who are better than the people you train with now, and that might make you better as an athlete. But you might not get the chance to race with the new team.
If you're not good enough, you're not good enough.
I chose DI over Swarthmore and it proved to be a great decision both academically and athletically. The coach that signed me knew of Swarthmore's coach driving 12+ hours to sign me and stated the best line yet, "do you want to be a big fish in a little pond, think about it?"
Staying on top of your studies will be far more difficult when you are in over your head athletically. I think staying where you are will be a far more appropriate level of challenge for you. Especially since you are posting this on Letsrun.
Fun to agree with you 100% from time to time coach d.
coach d wrote:
Flagpole wrote:Since neither means you're likely loaded with running talent, I would go to where the education you'll receive most fits with your career goals. Seriously.
Totally agree here. If you're talking about just being able to walk on to a D1 school, you don't have the talent to ever make anything financially out of running, so it should not really be part of the decision.
You might be able to train with people in D1 who are better than the people you train with now, and that might make you better as an athlete. But you might not get the chance to race with the new team.
If you're not good enough, you're not good enough.
liar. you don't "sign" in d3.
I live with a DIII coach and he has students sign something, I don't know what it is. His version of the letter of intent I guess.
uygkuyg wrote:
liar. you don't "sign" in d3.
coach d wrote:
[quote]Flagpole wrote:
If you're talking about just being able to walk on to a D1 school, you don't have the talent to ever make anything financially out of running, so it should not really be part of the decision.
Not even AAs in D1 XC have the talent to make a living on running. Quit acting like if you suddenly start running D1 this makes you a better runner, it doesn't.