Two coaches have told me to run fewer miles: why?

maccabee wrote:

This may in fact be the most civilized Letsrun thread ever created.

And no requests for pics from the OP or her daughter.

I tell ya, it's weirding me out dude.

My view - your therapist is getting you back to square one. Your coaches watch you run.

I assume you have finished your therapy - otherwise you'd not be out there running distances that put you into therapy in the first place.

I suggest you read about Paula Newbury Frazer. A star ironman for many years. Came back at an old age, doing less work, but was selective in her work outs, and poreformed top tier.

I'd follow your coaches, unless you want to train yourself.

J.O. wrote:

With my own SI problems, more mileage is better because it reduces the tightness in the muscles which cause my SI problems. You see it's not the sacro iliac joint which is the real problem, but the tightness in the muscles pulling the SI joint out of alignment.

Same with me. SI problems are the 'end point' where I have to seek treatment. General muscle tension can build for weeks (and if I am smart I can manage it and reduce it) before the SI is affected.

A good routine of gentle mobilising exercises for everything from knees to shoulders is really useful. I presume your PT has given you lots to do after runs?

They probably feel you need to back off your mileage until you feel 100%.

I think the best thing you could do is get a deep tissue massage with warm oil.

spread it all over your body. Work it deep, deep into the sore tissues.

go slow, deep, and make it hurt.

Oooooh it hurts good huh?

With all the athletes I've coached I have found there is not one formula. I'm surprised the coaches made recommendations without a complete history. I have had master's women (over 50) run over 60 miles a week while training for marathon's and one who does it with 45 with lots of cross training. I have other runners who run 90+ miles a week with a long run and two other hard workouts a week. While some can only handle one.

This I will say, take your time coming back. If you have been off for 6 months and cross training like mad, you still have a great cardiovascular system, but the body is lagging. It may not be your hip that gives, but something else. That to much to quick syndrome.

Let your body have time to adapt, then go get'em!

run on dirt and modulate your pace a lot, depending on how you feel. you might run 9 min/mile one day and 6 the next. and keep up with the pt exercises even when the rehab's done. that should get your mileage up. doubles help as well.

In my opinion, 35 mpw would be on the low-end for marathon preparation. If you have had success with the coach in the past, then your plan of adding mileage to the plan should work as well.

In response to your question about speedwork: it depends on what type of speed work you are adding. For example, if you are running easy mileage, then you can add short, fast sprints (3 - 10 seconds) once (twice a week, maximum) as one form of speedwork. In a similar vein, you could perform 100m runs at 1500m race pace with a 20 - 30m float recovery without disrupting the overall flow or goal of your main training plan. If you wanted to add a phase of your training dedicated to speedwork, then you'd want to look at the balance between the intensity of your speedwork and the volume of miles you were running at the time.

I definitely recommend focusing on your form. RogueRunning's channel on Youtube is a good place to start for basic information on drills and exercises with videos and explanations. Running on the treadmill can be a good time to practice adjusting your form because you are in such a controlled situation, so, if that is something that you already enjoy, then you may want to consider it.

An online coach is a waste of time

Thanks to everyone who has replied with great ideas and feedback. I am not training for a marathon. I would just like to try to get faster in shorter distances b/4 I get even older. And I was trying to figure out how long I should develop a base b/4 trying faster running. That was my Q to the coaches in the first place, at which time they both told me to run fewer miles.

These were online coaches and I was just wondering. I wasn't paying them--they offered the advice for free.

I am stuck on running 40 mpw b/c I can't run more at the moment. Mileage seems like the king on letsrun and books I've read. And I've handled that mileage fine in the past (injury caused by self-defense class). And ran my fastest in the past on the highest mileage.

I'm still in PT. PT has me running this mileage while trying to handle the injury in PT.

Anyway, I will try some of the suggestions. I was just wondering why the pullback in mileage. In the case of the second coach, I think it's just his philosophy in general, not related to my injury b/c he said even his marathoners run fewer miles. The first coach I think was just basing his numbers on my most recent mileage when I contacted him a few weeks ago.

Fogrunner-were you dealing with SI joint injury?

I like the suggestion to run on dirt. It's difficult for women due to safety but I have been trying to run more on softer surfaces.

Thanks again to everyone.

lalala wrote:I like the suggestion to run on dirt. It's difficult for women due to safety ...

I knew it- that's a dead giveaway. 9/10 for all of the responses you elicted.

Good one!

xxtrailrunnerxx wrote:

lalala wrote:I like the suggestion to run on dirt. It's difficult for women due to safety ...

I knew it- that's a dead giveaway. 9/10 for all of the responses you elicted.

Good one!

What in the world are you talking about?

I cannot run on dirt because dirt trails are isolated and one woman in my hometown was killed on a running trail (not even isolated), thus the self-defense class that led to my current injury.

My choices for dirt surfaces include: (1) one 10 mile dirt road with zero civilization (no houses, just agriculture with a few random worker trucks here and there); and (2) one state park with roughly 15 miles of trails through the woods. Which do you think would be safe for a female runner running alone? Yes, I could run with a friend, which is what I try to do once a week. Regular running with groups/friends just wouldn't fit my schedule. I may get to the point where I run in the isolated areas alone, but so far I'm trying to stay safe on asphalt.

My injury was a lateral marginal fractured left patella. I self-rehabbed in 6 months without surgery using physio ball, deep water pool, eliptical, bike, shallow water pool bottom, uphill treadmill forefoot style, uphill grass, flat pine needles & astroturf, and finally flat astroturf w/ 10mph headwind pulling a 15 lb.resistance parachute. I reengineered my stride. I'm a 2nd-career physical therapy student.

Research the nutrients needed to synthesize the damaged body tissue. Identify positively your daily intake of those nutrients. Cold/warm (pool/jacuzzi) water transition exercise enhances circulation and nutrient delivery. I also used natural bromelain enzyme (pineapple stem extract) to dissolve scar tissue. 1 week 1000mg 1x a day, Then 2-4 wks 500mg 2x a day. Take between meals.

thus the self-defense class that led to my current injury

___________________________________________________________

So an answer to a useless thread.

Still in therapy, hurt herself while doing a martial arts class.

Nothing to do with running.

All the answers that came with assumptions on how she got heurt were baseless.

Listen to your therapist.

eurodonkey wrote:

J.O. wrote:

With my own SI problems, more mileage is better because it reduces the tightness in the muscles which cause my SI problems. You see it's not the sacro iliac joint which is the real problem, but the tightness in the muscles pulling the SI joint out of alignment.

Same with me. SI problems are the 'end point' where I have to seek treatment. General muscle tension can build for weeks (and if I am smart I can manage it and reduce it) before the SI is affected.

A good routine of gentle mobilising exercises for everything from knees to shoulders is really useful. I presume your PT has given you lots to do after runs?

***********************************************

Hi Eurodonkey, Chamonix ey? Niiice.

So I went to see the doctor and I said doctor it hurts when I do this.....

And he said, well don't do it.

But anyways I asked him for a consultation to see a PT and she gave me just two sessions, and some exercises to do. She said that there was no muscle damage, the problem was neural, which was good for my confidence because I had gone from flying along at 5 minute miling, to a complete lack of coordination in my left leg and pain every time I sat down for more than 5 minutes.

It took me many weeks to get back, but then I had my best ever season, with nine wins, that was 2008. When I ran that 4.05 it was a slow race and I was in 4.00-4.01 shape.

You asked me what my youthful best times were? Well 5.17 in the 5000 aged 16 improving to 4.00 aged 43.

Thanks for the info about Dave Heath BTW, I had no idea he had run those times in 2009-2010 because I have been out of touch and not looked at the rankings. In 2008 that Spanish guy ran 3.48 aged 46, so he has put the record where it should be. A cynical person would say you know what, but I don't think like that. I know I can run sub 4 at 50 because my basic speed is there, and I am getting my enthusiasm back for hard training, so that it doesn't actually feel hard until I stop, if you know what I mean?

Anyways have a nice holiday, don't break a leg.

You're welcome lalala. Excuse me if I have missed something, but what was/is your injury.

To greatly simplify things, SI joint laxity.

To confuse things, maybe a nerve running through my piriformis on top of SI joint laxity--maybe.

Doc says probably not labral tear but someone on this board thinks I have a labral tear.

The pain had been going away, basically was gone except most teensy weensy tightness still perceptible, while running SLOW for the last 4-5 weeks, but last weekend it returned with strides (or short intervals--not sure what you would call them but maybe 80 m pretty fast times 10 plus one 200 m interval just to test). The pain has resolved again but the tightness is worse again.

It's just a complicated injury. PT has told me to run as if I'm not in PT b/c not running wasn't working and she wants to see if she can work out the injury via various modalities while I"m running.

So I've been trying to train and run as if I'm not injured even though I still have tightness and some pain after every run.

This has been going on for 3 years at this point...6 months of PT recently, 2 times PT before that.

Thanks for asking.

because contrary to LRC's lydiard fundamentalism, more is not always better.

And contrary to ignorant Lydiard critics, he would tell any runner to stop if they are hurting.