Two coaches have told me to run fewer miles: why?

So your hip is feeling better?

Perhaps they think the injury not completely behind you or not enough time has elapsed that they feel comfortable with 40 mpw. Maybe they think 5-10 less mpw would decrease the risk of reinjury, and at this point in time it's better not to fly too close to the sun. Maybe they want you to shift your focus away from the mileage and numbers, so you don't get too caught up in them and forge ahead and ignore warning signs. Maybe being a masters runner has something to do with it--they think you can rely on years of strong bases, and you don't need as many miles now and the miles come with a bigger risk anyway. Or maybe they're not experienced with female runners, or don't have as good of a sense of your training history and durability as you do.

My advice, as an anonymous unqualified poster, is to find a middle ground and hold off increasing your mileage for a few more weeks. I've found that I always feel okay, until it's too late and my injury--or reinjury--has become inevitable. I know that you're probably very anxious to get back to real training, and that it's incredibly frustrating for the injury to still be messing up your life, but continue practicing all the patience and restraint you've learned during your time away from running. It's so much better to be undertrained and overcautious than to undo all of your hard-earned progress.

In the end, you're the one who knows your body the best, and you're also the one who is going to have to live with the consequences.

It's not always how many miles, but how quickly you increase them. Injured joints need time to get used to the pounding.

If two different coaches told you this, I wouldn't argue.

Be clear!

You didn't mention the condition of your injury in the boards and you didn't explain your goals!

I guess from what you explained to the two coaches, they came up with that conclusion!

As many mentioned here, if you are not 100% recovered, then doing similar mileage prior to your injury is not a good idea!

Cheers!

What was your mileage before the injury?

Thanks to everyone.

I'm recovering from an SI joint injury. I've had the injury for 3 years, but I ran through most of it--basically for 2.5 years I mostly continued to run 40 mpw (a little cross-training to equal 40 mpw but not much). The last 6 months I have been in PT, maybe 2 months of very little to no training when I first started, then 4 months of cross-training to equal 40 mpw (elliptical and swimming). I've added leg wts per PT in last few months.

Before the injury, I was running 40-50 mpw. My highest mileage ever was 50-70 mpw (this was maybe 6 years ago).

Here's the thing--my PT has told me to run unlimited. She is highly qualified--the lead therapist in sports facility and highly highly recommended by ortho surgeon and also excellent by my own observation. She said that we would "just deal" with whatever happens from the injury as I build up mileage. This was after months of trying to get better, then run, then it would hurt again no matter what. So she told me to run. I am running with an SI belt. The pain is very minimal at this point--almost non-existent--just a tiny bit of tightness on the right side after runs--and this from her treatment that she applies twice weekly (deep tissue massage, ultrasound, and ETPS--electrical stimulation). She wants me to run as much as I feel that I can/should b/c she wants to test my hip, make sure that she is setting me "free" on the mileage that I want to be running, etc. And even with the increased mileage she has been able to cure the minor pain with treatments in between runs.

Even more important, I am trying to run the mileage that I want to run b/c if I were only running 20 mpw, then it wouldn't hurt. And I don't want to leave PT on lower mileage only to start running more and have the pain return without PT. It's kind of complicated. I'm paying a lot out of pocket and kind of in a hurry to test the waters on mileage--and anyway not planning on exceeding 40 mpw (which I should hit this week) any time real soon. I just want to see if I can get to 40 mpw and stay with that number comfortably for a while, maybe get 100% rid of the pain at that mileage. Again the pain almost isn't pain--last week it was gone until I tried to run strides and one interval for the first time, then a little pain returned for the rest of that one day. So she told me to hold off on any speedwork, at least for a week or two of more treatments.

I haven't explained the whole thing to these coaches. The thing is that I don't do much speedwork. I've just run a lot of miles. So they both are saying you need to add speed and take away miles.

I really feel that I'm strong enough to run these miles and am really listening to my body in terms of not running through anything that doesn't feel right (if I ever have pain it is always after runs anyway).

I thought they were thinking less about my injury and more about the fact that I need to add speedwork--which they seem to think/say needs to include a reduction in mileage. But I need to build back a base b/4 I get into trying any speed, IMHO.

I guess I also just figured they fall into the "low mileage is better" camp--are there 2 camps? Or would most coaches recommend higher mileage IF they thought you could handle it? Sorry to ramble. Have never worked with a coach and just wondering. Thanks.

Hi,

I've read your posts and the board's responses. Very glad to see/hear that you are performing physical therapy so diligently. Here are my two cents:

The two coaches you spoke with online recommended that you lower your mileage and add speedwork because to their minds that is what your TRAINING balance may be missing. However, from the sounds of it, your PHYSICAL balance or the path you're taking to return your body to equilibrium requires that you test your hip's ability to withstand mileage. AND your current PT situation requires that you build up your mileage first. This is not a problem in terms of training methodology.

I'd recommend that you run your 40 MPW and test your hip.

However, I'd also suggest that you keep these things in mind:

Your body will respond very differently to training when you are not receiving professional treatments (massage, ultrasound and e-stim). I know that's obvious but please remember that after PT your training will change (not necessarily in a negative way) but those treatments probably do a lot more for your physical health than you think.

Consider finding a a local coach whom you can meet with on occasion. She/he may be able to smooth out any technical/biomechanical issues that you're having and also provide training feedback or a sounding board when you run into training problems like this.

In the future, consider giving some speed training a chance. There are a variety of ways to train for speed and many times the added training variety provides a mental/emotional boost. In addition to those benefits, you may find that the new stimulus strengthens your hips and allows you to run more MPW in the long-run.

Anyway, that's my humble opinion and I hope that you find some it helpful.

T,

You can ask the advice of all the coaches you want on here but the fact still remains they will never personally or physically know who you are. "40 y.o. woman with SI-joint dysfunction" is just not enough information for them to tell you what to do (or for me, or for anyone).

Despite spending the past 6 months with pretty dysfunctional hip/lowerback pain you have managed to **make progress**. Believe in your own judgement because despite the odds, you are slowly but surely getting better (or so it sounds like from your pain description).

Take it a day at a time. Know that even though you might have ran 40 miles last week, maybe this week you only do 30-35 and x-train or rest for a day or two. Maybe you will feel better this week and do 45 miles. Anyone can give you advice in terms of speed or numbers but they will not be there to know how your body is responding on that particular day, nor can they predict that.

Your PT sounds wonderful and very dedicated to getting you back healthier than you were before which is awesome. Just EASE into things and you will be where you want to be eventually :)

If you want to be safe about mileage increase, a general rule of thumb is not to increase your weekly mileage by more than 10% a week. And you don't want to increase EVERY week. For example, when I was marathon training, I started around 60mpw. I'd build up slowly as follows (and also include a few *down* weeks to allow for recovery):

60

65

70

65

70

75

60

75

80

As you can see, it took me about 9 weeks to go from 60-80 miles which is almost a 35% increase in mileage. At times I would bump back down 5 miles or so and on week 7 I bumped down 15 miles to recover a bit. I'm not saying you have to follow this exact method but just to give you an idea...hope this helps.

Good luck and glad to hear you are recovering well!

Thank you. The one coach who I have chosen to work with says he is just not a fan of higher mileage b/c it causes injury. Even marathon runners he trains do not exceed 35 mpw. But he said the mileage is up to me so I will just add whatever miles to the plan and hope that works.

Couple of questions: let's just say I added speedwork. Do you usually/typically reduce mileage when you add speedwork? If so, by how much? Or can you safely continue same mileage while incorporating speedwork? I'm just trying to get a sense of what would be normal, after you build a base, adding speedwork, do you reduce mileage?

Also I'm really hoping the benefits of the PT stay with me after I finish, but I'm sticking with her until the pain is gone so hopefully that will work.

I may try to meet personally with a coach after I finish PT. I'm just slow and so not much point in spending the money b/c realistically despite running being my lifetime passion, I'm just not fast and getting older. But I'm becoming more interested in running *form* due to this injury, so I may have to look around for someone to look at my gate.

I do agree that speed helps with the physical and mental benefits of running. The only time in my life that I've done a training program with speedwork was about 6 years ago--it was amazing, the feeling, and the physical/speed benefits.

Also occassionally I run faster on the TM and I really enjoy those runs.

Thanks again...

Thanks Neliah. Are you "A" or is there more than one Neliah on this board?? If you are A, then I was going to ask you but didn't want to bother b/4 your surgery.

Anyway, I have applied the 10% rule and taken a recovery week every 2-3 weeks. So that's working out. I guess my main Q is *if* I add speedwork, would I normally reduce whatever mileage I'm at? Like if I'm running 40 mpw (with some higher and lower), would I reduce to 30 when adding speed? Also how long do you need to build a base b/4 you start adding speedwork?

Thank you again to everyone!!

Sounds like you're working with an online coach. Most of them don't care, you're just easy money to them.

I don't think that mileage per se causes injury, and for serious runners, 35 mpw is way too low for a marathon, that's just not respecting the distance of the race.With my own SI problems, more mileage is better because it reduces the tightness in the muscles which cause my SI problems. You see it's not the sacro iliac joint which is the real problem, but the tightness in the muscles pulling the SI joint out of alignment.I can do more mileage and more faster paced running and more pure speed work gradually and the problem eases over time. I've had nasty sciatica, where even sitting was painful, and back spasms which prevented me from even walking, but with time and more and more training, these problems gradually eased, and I have gone on to have long periods of successful racing.

Yes you can build both mileage and speed work, but it is best to gradually introduce things over several weeks than to suddenly do a lot of speed work.

Yes you do need a coach who can see you regularly, not an internet coach.

J.O. wrote:

I don't think that mileage per se causes injury, and for serious runners, 35 mpw is way too low for a marathon, that's just not respecting the distance of the race.

With my own SI problems, more mileage is better because it reduces the tightness in the muscles which cause my SI problems. You see it's not the sacro iliac joint which is the real problem, but the tightness in the muscles pulling the SI joint out of alignment.

I can do more mileage and more faster paced running and more pure speed work gradually and the problem eases over time. I've had nasty sciatica, where even sitting was painful, and back spasms which prevented me from even walking, but with time and more and more training, these problems gradually eased, and I have gone on to have long periods of successful racing.

This is really good to hear. Thanks. I was worried last week when the new addition of speedwork (and really not speedwork--just 10 strides and 1 x 200 test interval) caused a flare-up. Maybe I just jumped in with too much, too soon.

I also had the sciatica that made sitting painful--actually that is what forced me into PT 6 months ago. Thankfully that pain is gone. Just now mild tightness after I run, ocassional pains also that move around but centered around my SI joint. Those had gone away before the strides last week. So slow distance seems okay for me now.

Thanks to everyone--love letsrun posters (well most of them anyway :)!!

This may in fact be the most civilized Letsrun thread ever created.

My advice is to gradually build up. Add about 1 mile extra per week and have a low mileage week every now and then when you get tired. Adding 1 mpw will be a much lower figure than 99.9% of letrunners will tell you, but that is an extra 52 miles per week one year from now, so it's not too low.

Are there any running clubs near you, where you can get free coaching? If there are, and they have been established for a while then there are bound to be some very experienced runners who can advise you.

maccabee wrote:

This may in fact be the most civilized Letsrun thread ever created.

Yes, and many thanks to everyone who participated. :)

J.O.--thanks. I really appreciate the advice. I will try your suggestion. 40 is pretty solid given my slower pace so adding 1 per week I wouldn't feel held back.

There are runners groups around. I mean, I kind of am one of the experienced runners among my running friends--just that I'm slow and experienced. :) My fastest local running friend reads no books whatsoever, ignores all coaches, and basically tries to run fast everytime he goes out. He tells me stuff but basically flies in the face of everything I read. He always wants me to try run faster, anytime we run together. Anyway I digress.

I will keep my eye out for someone local who is actually a coach. I would be willing to pay something for a coach after I finish paying for the PT, just not sure how much they charge or where exactly to find someone who would really be good.

I know the basic jargon and general "rules" I think after years of reading all sorts of stuff, including these boards, books, etc. But really haven't made myself do speedwork.

Ironically I think aging and this injury have made me do some soul searching in terms of attempting more speed and seeing what I really can do in races. I mean, since I love running, and since only more aging is to follow, I may as well try to give it my all before it's too late, you know?

Anyway thanks again for the thoughts. I do love running, want to run faster, and again love letsrun!! :)

I have been running for years and have tried many different ways to train depending on what kind of shape I am in. I started a program last month that I really like.

The program is simply to run one hour a day. Depending on your pace, you may be pretty close to that. The difference is that I don't run at the same pace every day. I normally do progression runs but I run a faster pace one day and a recovery pace the next day. Then every 4-5 days I add in a speedwork session. I still run an hour that day but I do about a 20 minute warmup and then may run one minute fast with 2 minutes easy until the hour is up. Another day, I may go 2 minutes harder pace with a recovery in between. Another day may be 4 or 5 miles at a harder pace than usual. The key is that you can tell how hard the total workout was by how many miles you did in that hour. The next day you can go easy to recover. If you are running at the proper level, the mileage you are able to do during that hour should gradually increase on your hard days. Easy days should always be easy and wouldn't really have to increase.

By doing this you can keep your mileage steady and add only enough speedwork that you are comfortable with.

I would also suggest going to the therapist about once a month even when you are feeling good again. Keeping aligned may help keep injuries away in the future.

Fellow masters runner, try pool bottom running wearing shoes. Best water depth between your xyphoid process to top of armpits. Open hands and DRIVE. I'm a 51 male 4:50 miler doing aerobic base building research. Nov. 1st max heart rate 183 bpm, Feb. 1st max HR is 190. Running 5:07 mile @ only 169 bpm avg HR with zero speed work. Averaging 84 miles per wk.

For more detail, go to the main message board, top right "Search", type in "FogRunner". Find my 1/27/2011 post response to Shallow Water Running. I am now integrating 50% land runs with 50% pool, with hills 1x per week, and 400-800m speed 1x per wk. Racing every other weekend. Feel great.