Kim Collins out of retirement!

I see that Collins strained his groin in that final and is going back to his base for treatment.

uh oh...all of a sudden at 34 he is on top of the world, getting faster with every race...until he gets an injury...

The pattern is a familiar one.

The telltale will be how quickly he comes back--if at all.

if he's homophobic, who's the homo?

Kim Collins is nothing, a non-factor. The only reason he had his day in 2003 was because the field was so weak that year. Indoor competition allows second-rate sprinters (like Jason Gardner) to emerge because no major sprinter gives a damn about indoors.

That's better, although sort of wrong.

He is certainly a factor this year in the 60m--or at least he WAS a factor.

I agree that he's a non-factor in the 100m.

And please stop using all these different monikers.

You're not fooling anybody.

I'm interested in the drills to increase force production at extreme joint angles, examples?

BTW Keep educating, Sprint Geezer.

'that is very cool'

That's it exactly he was a really cool runner with a beautiful relaxed style

He might even have beaten Wariner in that mythical skinny sprinter 800m race!

Oh dear.

Here is someone who has an absolute fear and distain for people who are naturally "big" or can get naturally "big".

What an absolute, ab-so-lute **** !

Let me tell you something. Only remembering back to my own experience at high school, after going through puberty, there are so many guys who get "big" and muscled, and that's without any gym work. You find them heading in the direction of football, basketball and track. Other times these same "big" guys don't take any sports or exercise seriously.

Get real. Get with reality. Don't sabotage reality with your fear or sense of your own inadequacy.

Sprint Geezer, everyone has different biomechanics. Your joint angles analysis is a red herring. Different styles will produce different joint angles. Kim Collins has a much shorter stride than other sprinters, high knee lift, low heel lift. That's his way of running.

What you also failed to grasp, from my other thread is that every runner will benefit from improved power from the push off, and this is done with bounding and plyometric work done slowly (longer ground contact) and converted into speed when ground contact time is reduced in fast efforts and races.

Are you for real?

I'm naturally 5'10", 185--180 now w/lots of running, easily 190+ if I laid off the running, and solid.

Compared to Collins, I am huge. I have no fear of, or disdain for, myself.

Get a life.

When you actually train for sprinting, you will find yourself with a varied group of guys. Historically, they could roughly be broken down into 2 groups: big guys, powerful runners who usually wouldn't do anything over 100 and would groan at even a 200, and small guys, who were whip-fast in the 100, tops in the 200, and even ran good 400's.

A lot of the big guys were actually footballers, training with good sprinters to either impress at the combine or to up their stock once they unfortunately got caught in the eddy that is the CFL or that was NFL Europe.

You're trying to create an issue where there is none.

All I said was that because Collins weighs only 147 lbs while doing lots of power-type work, there is little chance that he is doing anabolics, assuming a normal diet. Also, his weight has seemed consistent, even in off-seasons and in indoor, "training" seasons.

I said absolutely nothing about bigger sprinters. I don't actually care how big somebody is--it's the times that count. His times have been both consistent and credible, although his 60m pr and continued improvement at age 34 is surprising.

Today there is emerging a third group of sprinters--the tall guys--Obikwelu and Bolt foremost among them.

Fun times--BTW, I also have no bias relating to tall sprinters.

While I hesitate to respond substantively to anything J.O./I know better/oh plz/Ventolin^3 has to say, I will say this:

"Different styles will produce different joint angles."

Yes. Different styles can in fact be characterized by different joint angles.

"Kim Collins has a much shorter stride than other sprinters, high knee lift, low heel lift. That's his way of running."

Yes. That is precisely why his 100m PR is 9.98, and not 9.85

His "way of running" is his "way of running 10.00".

If he wants to run 9.85, he needs a NEW "way of running"--a "way of running 9.85".

Collins' 9.98 (+0.2) is equivalent to a corrected 9.99

Fantastic, a sub-10 under still conditions.

More impressively, though more speculatively, that would be a 9.90 (+2.0)

If he had a better top-end, he would have been one of the very fastest guys ever over 100m.

Of course, I don't know if it is biomechanically possible for him to have a better top-end, although from a cursory inspection, it certainly does seem possible; but again, it's all trade-off's.

Maybe his current top-end form IS stretched-out, for him! Maybe his natural stride is even shorter, who knows. But I doubt it.

His 100m history speaks for itself, and is excellent IMHO.

oh plz wrote:

Kim Collins is nothing, a non-factor. The only reason he had his day in 2003 was because the field was so weak that year. Indoor competition allows second-rate sprinters (like Jason Gardner) to emerge because no major sprinter gives a damn about indoors.

How did you do that year?

It might be relatively weak he was still the fastest spinter in the world. I doubt you are the fastest spinter on you street

Most of the top sprinters have done indoors. Gardner was one of the best ever at 60. By the way steroids gets you the other 40m just like the long list of American champions 'world record' holders (and that cheating twat from my country too!)

We used to do all sorts of things, like dynamic stretching and loading while stretched. I especially remember various drills for hurdles and jav. It's important to remember to do them for both upper and lower body, even if applied to only running and not throws.

In particular, I remember seemingly endless lunges, forward and backward, and really high box steps, using a large barbell with as much weight as you can take.

Also we had this special machine that was custom-made, that would work your hams and glutes while you were standing--there are commercial equivalents now in some gyms that I have seen, but they don't enable the same ROM, unfortunately.

Also dips with tons of weight, all the way down, to really stretch the chest. Stuff like that.

The stuff did wonders for the jav guys, who were always trying to increase their dynamic range, and the vaulters in particular.

It needs supervision, though, and a careful build-up, to avoid injury. The point is not necessarily to USE the entirety of what you build, just to increase the available envelope.

Yes, yes, I know that sprinting is basically defined by force application to the ground, and that power development at extreme joint angles does not seem to be directly applicable. But although perhaps not a maximum at extreme joint angle, force production does begin at that angle, and foot speed upon hitting the ground is dependent in large part upon the magnitude and time of force generation throughout the leg swing.

That gives better foot speed--and at top speed in a 100m, that is what you need. Force application to the ground, if I remember correctly, is not as great a factor at top speed, because inertia plays a large role, and the only "extra" force that must be supplied is that sufficient to overcome drag from basically the air resistance--which, at 25mph+, is not insignificant.

That is why you hear of 100m guys trying to not slow down in the latter half of a race. The required energy system starts to crap out, force production throughout the leg swing lessens, and foot speed slows, and the runner slows. Trying to conserve some energy earlier in the race can be a good strategy. Trying to increase the time available for the foot to reach top speed is another strategy that is used.

For some (only for some) 100m sprinters, developing more force at extreme joint angles can be beneficial, or even absolutely necessary to achieving a longer stride. I think that Collins is one of those sprinters.

Clowns of the Purple Sage wrote:

Well...who is the 2nd fastest guy from St Kitts And Nevis?

DK but it looks like it would be one of these guys

Allistar Clarke, Delwayne Delaney, Robert Morton, Kim Collins 4X100m STK 39.74 Rio Dejaneiro 20-Jul-07

Kurvin Wallace, Kim Collins, Delwayne Delaney, Donnell Esdaille 4X100m STK 39.84 St. George's 29-May-04

Kevin Authurton, Delwayne Delaney, Donnell Esdaille, Kim Collins 4X100m STK 39.88 St. George's 06-Jul-03

Donnell Esdaille, Delwayne Delaney, Irvin Browne, Kurvin Wallace 4X100m STK 40.04 Austin 03-Apr-04

wineturtle wrote:

Clowns of the Purple Sage wrote:

Well...who is the 2nd fastest guy from St Kitts And Nevis?

DK but it looks like it would be one of these guys

Allistar Clarke, Delwayne Delaney, Robert Morton, Kim Collins 4X100m STK 39.74 Rio Dejaneiro 20-Jul-07

Kurvin Wallace, Kim Collins, Delwayne Delaney, Donnell Esdaille 4X100m STK 39.84 St. George's 29-May-04

Kevin Authurton, Delwayne Delaney, Donnell Esdaille, Kim Collins 4X100m STK 39.88 St. George's 06-Jul-03

Donnell Esdaille, Delwayne Delaney, Irvin Browne, Kurvin Wallace 4X100m STK 40.04 Austin 03-Apr-04

add Ricardo Liddie · Bertram Haynes · Maxime Isiah from the 1996 OG 40.12 team to the mix

Sprint Geezer wrote:

While I hesitate to respond substantively to anything J.O./I know better/oh plz/Ventolin^3 has to say, I will say this:

"Different styles will produce different joint angles."

Yes. Different styles can in fact be characterized by different joint angles.

"Kim Collins has a much shorter stride than other sprinters, high knee lift, low heel lift. That's his way of running."

Yes. That is precisely why his 100m PR is 9.98, and not 9.85

His "way of running" is his "way of running 10.00".

If he wants to run 9.85, he needs a NEW "way of running"--a "way of running 9.85".

You're an idiot. I am not posting under those other names you paranoid fool.

Given your response, I will let other posters determine who is the idiot and the fool.

Sprint Geezer wrote:

Given your response, I will let other posters determine who is the idiot and the fool.

Grow up.