Pretty dang awesome to see them make the NCAA National Championships. Not a household name school or big-time program, but getting it done without a lot of fame or big names.
From what I understand they have pretty limited resources on the men's side.
Congrats to Coach Taylor and his crew - from another coach.
The men have no scholarships. When they won A-10s a couple of weeks back, two teams had no scholarships for men...Richmond and St. Bonaventure. St. Bonaventure was last.
Someone needs to write a story about these guys then. My guess is that the majority of runners in college can relate with them better then the powerhouse programs loaded with blue-chip scholarship talent. I would like to learn more about their program.
Richmond men are just badasses. Not a dime in scholarship money on the men's side and they're going to nationals. Huge props to those guys for getting it done. I'd bet they're the only team with zero scholarships to make it. Anyone know what other teams with zero money have made it to nationals in recent years? Or won a conference championship?
A good story wrote:
Someone needs to write a story about these guys then. My guess is that the majority of runners in college can relate with them better then the powerhouse programs loaded with blue-chip scholarship talent. I would like to learn more about their program.
SE runnner wrote:
Anyone know what other teams with zero money have made it to nationals in recent years? Or won a conference championship?
Princeton comes to mind.
Zero money. Does this mean that the Richmond mens team is paying full price to go to school. Think again. Richmond has one of the very best academic and financial aid based deals in the Country. This was a great run for Richmond but please understand the facts. Bottom
Bottom Line-Financial Aid wrote:
Zero money. Does this mean that the Richmond mens team is paying full price to go to school. Think again. Richmond has one of the very best academic and financial aid based deals in the Country. This was a great run for Richmond but please understand the facts. Bottom
Prove it. I haven't found that to be the case.
Bottom Line-Financial Aid wrote:
Zero money. Does this mean that the Richmond mens team is paying full price to go to school. Think again. Richmond has one of the very best academic and financial aid based deals in the Country. This was a great run for Richmond but please understand the facts. Bottom
Are you dense?
They are talking about athletic scholarship. Sure many schools can offer good academic aid and need based packages but that is not athletic scholarship. If you want to discount them as a feel good story because they come from a poor background or are smart, feel free.
Regardless of what you think, they are doing a much better job than dozens of good programs with big name recruits and athletic scholarships (Ohio State being the first that comes to mind).
SE runnner wrote:
Anyone know what other teams with zero money have made it to nationals in recent years? Or won a conference championship?
Um... ever not heard of Cornell?
Ivies have a ridiculous amount of wealth (in the billions) and they are always able to provide incredible need-based financial aid scholarships.
They should not be compared to the Richmond squat. Good for them.
No one is saying they don't have academic scholarships & need-based aid. They have academic scholarships that are extremely competitive. Financial aid is need-based & a lot of it is in the way of loans.
Richmond men XC/T&F have zero athletic scholarships, absolutely none!
The Spider Men did an awesome job yesterday. Way to go guys!
sadjflsiemmmn wrote:
Ivies have a ridiculous amount of wealth (in the billions) and they are always able to provide incredible need-based financial aid scholarships.
They should not be compared to the Richmond squat. Good for them.
The University of Richmond has an endowment of $1.4 BILLION, #34 in the country (2009).
Not too far behind Brown or Dartmouth, and ahead of schools such as Georgetown, UCLA, Syracuse, William & Mary, and Villanova.
http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/research/2009_NCSE_Public_Tables_Endowment_Market_Values.pdfWilliam and Mary gets a lot out of a very small amount of scholarship money. That makes their accomplishment of 3 wins in a row in SE Regional even more impressive, considering they are beating UVa, UNC, Louisville, and so on.
I like how whenever somebody or some team does something special everyone tries to take them down a peg. What Richmond did was unprecedented and unexpected for that school. No academic reputation like W&M or the Ivys. No scholarship money. No foreigners. No Footlocker kids. What more do you want? It is special and they deserve congratulations
A few clarifications...
1. It is true the Ivies don't give scholarsphip money, however, it's no secret that they give generous financial packages (as does the University of Richmond). I can't speak to every Ivy league school, but many are able to give "financial aid" to talented athletes which is basically an athletic scholarship under a different name. For example, I know a kid who was given a "presidential scholarship" at a university that didnt give athletic scholarships. It was a half scholarship for the "top 10%" of the incoming class. There was no way he was in the top 10% (which everyone knew) but the coach wanted me to run there.
2. At Richmond many of those guys are getting aid, but I can promise you that they are getting as much aid as a typical student... in other words they don't get an extra aid package because they were good runners in high school. They are good students who get into the school and then get aid based on how much the university thinks they need.
3. The real point is this is a bunch of 9:30 3200 runners (I think Andrew Benford ran 9:29 in high school, Llano ran low 9:30s) who are now going to nationals. They went to Richmond because they wanted to run and work hard and be coached by a great, great coach. They've developed incredibly well and now they get to run in the big race, which is pretty special.
4. Is that more impressive then what Princeton does? Or what William and Mary does? Or what Iona does or Portland or any "little guy" running against BCS conferences? I don't know.
It is what is is and you can debate it all you'd like. But the facts are that Coach Steve Taylor has done a phenomenal job with those boys and those boys have worked incredibly hard to achieve big goals. And that is both impressive and inspring.
Train hard, dream big.
Not bad for a bunch of goons from the dorms. Congrats!
SpiderGrad wrote:
2. At Richmond many of those guys are getting aid, but I can promise you that they are getting as much aid as a typical student... in other words they don't get an extra aid package because they were good runners in high school. They are good students who get into the school and then get aid based on how much the university thinks they need.
That's the way need based financial aid is given at every other school in the country. Ivy League included.
Look, the Ivies have generous financial aid packages, as does every other school with a large endowment.
The amount of aid you can get is determined by your FAFSA - that's it. It's not as if the Ivy League schools are giving people whose parents make $500,000 a year a "financial aid" scholarship because they are good athletes.
It's all need based. Most athletes in this country don't come from upper class households. Hence, most athletes would qualify for a significant amount of need based financial aid.
What Richmond does with their financial aid is no different than any other school.
Richmond making the NCAAs is great because its a team with basically no tradition. Since they have no tradition, most people assume that they are a school with zero resources, when in fact, that's not exactly true.
But good for them, they work hard, and now they are running at the NCAAs.
Y'know, if this Richmond guy were coaching basketball or football, he'd be snapped up by a major DI program as soon as Nationals were over.
Props to the men of Richmond! Tremendous accomplishment!
PS I'm trying to remember--back in the Art Gulden days, did Bucknell (also no athletic scholarships) sometimes qualify a team for Nationals? I remember they were hella competitive. Also, how about the military academies? Everyone gets a scholarship + stipend there, but there's no athletic aid...
PPS Agree with previous posters' corrections re the Ivy question: need-based aid, period--but very substantial need-based aid (for ALL students, however, not just athletes). At some schools I believe kids from families with incomes below $50k get 100% scholarships--no loans, all grants. Pretty sweet, which I think is why more and more top runners seem to be turning down athletic scholarships (at other schools) so they can go Ivy--it's actually a better deal.
And there are no presidential scholarships based on someone's class rank, etc.--no merit aid at the Ivies, period--so a previous poster's example of merit aid may have been from a no-athletic-scholarship school, but it wasn't from an Ivy.
[Full disclosure: I attended an Ivy and got a 3/4 ride--all scholarship, no loans--and I couldn't have made their JV squad.]
I thought coach Carter was still at Richmond.
rich-WHAT??!! rich-MOND!