I am not criticizing the coach in anyway, but I wanted to know if Mr Canova has any plans on coaching average elites. What is his success rate amongst these types and how much did they improve on average?
This goes back to what Rojo was saying, without the talent even the best coach in the world can't do sh*t.
John Doe. wrote:
I am not criticizing the coach in anyway, but I wanted to know if Mr Canova has any plans on coaching average elites. What is his success rate amongst these types and how much did they improve on average?
This goes back to what Rojo was saying, without the talent even the best coach in the world can't do sh*t.
Go lay your ass down and stop tryining to coach.
I want to satisfy your curiosity. Now, of course, I don't coach any Italian athlete, but, because I was the Italian National Responsible, and before I worked with some Club in Torino, winning Italian CLub Championships (Fiat IVECO, CUS Torino and SNIA Libertas Torino), I can give you some data :
Athletes starting their career with me :
MAURA VICECONTE (10'31" on 3000m when was 21 years old, at the end of the career Italian Record Holder of Marathon and 10000m with 2:23:47 and 31:05.54)
MARIA CURATOLO (from amateur category till silver medal in European Champs 1994 and bronze medal in World Road Championships 15 km 1987, Italian record holder of 10000m in 1986 with 32'04" - Marathon 2:30:14, also 8° in OG 1988)
ORNELLA FERRARA (started with me from 35' in 10000m in 1993, for winning bronze medal in World Championships 1995 in Marathon, PB 2:27 when was 39 years old)
MICHELE GAMBA (went with me with PB of 3'51" in 1500m when 21 years old, at the end of his career 13'23" / 28'02" / 61:07 and 2:11:00)
GIANNI CREPALDI (started when in the school, after ran 8'27" in steeple)
GIANNI CELLERINO (Engineer, with PB of 48"2 in 400m, came in Fiat when already 26, and improved till 46"7)
DANIELA GREGORUTTI (became my wife, before my coaching PB of 59"7 and 2'20"6, after 55"6 and 2'08" and Italian Champion of 800m indoor)
RAKYA MARAOUI (from Maroc, now French for marriage, started with me with 37' in 10000m, in 1995 became French Record Holder of Marathon with 2:28, and in 2000 ran 31'57" in 10000m)
FABIO RINALDI (athlete for 4'19" in 1500m while junior, at 28 years ran 13'58" / 28'49" / 61'50" / 2:11: in Marathon, winning Italian Championships)
MARCO GOZZANO (started with me when youth and went in National Junior Team for World CC Championships 1982, after was able to run 2:12 in Marathon arriving n. 5 in World Marathon Cup 1995 in Athens)
ROBERTO CROSIO (coming from amateur, worker for 8 hours a day, 2:12 in Marathon in 1994 winning Carpi, 7° in World Marathon Cup 1995)
DAVIDE MILESI (coming to me from Mountain Races, Marathon in 2:11, 3° in World Cup in Athens 1995)
NICOLA CIAVARELLA (working as school caretaker, coming from amateurs, ran with 1 session per day in 2:11: in 2001 or 2002, now I don't remember)
In my career in Italy, I had 23 athletes in Junior National team, and 73 in the Senior National Team, in track, cross, road, marathon and mountain races, including decathlonists (I was Italian Responsible of Decathlon from 1975 to 1985).
When I started to coach African runners, this happened in Italy, in 1996. I started to Marathon runners from track (like Jonah Koech) and athletes from...nothing.
About track, started completely with me in 1999 DORCUS INZIKURU, that became Worl Champion of 3000 steeple in 2005.
Other African Athletes that started their activity with me were JOHN KORIR (in OG 2000 while still junior, after able running 26'52"), WILFRIED BUNGEI (in 1999, the next season I put him under the coaching of Gianni Ghidini), RITA JEPTOO (in Italy for short road races, in 5 years with me winner of Boston in 2:23:38).
I don't want to continue, also because now I don't remember all the athletes I coached, from different Countries.
The fact is that Athletics was my life, and I started coaching in 1968, when I was 23. When I went in Kenya, this was a choice of life. I'm not interested to be the best or not, I like what I do and I'm happy when a my athlete is able to improve, from his level to something better. I don't suffer of jalousie, and I like to share what I know (I continue to learn day after day, this is my interest) with every coach, because I don't want that my life can be useless. I'm not Samson (when I die, I want that also Track and Field can finish), but I prefer that who comes after me can use what I had the opportunity to learn.
And after this, understand that, if you have experience with the bests, you can learn more, because the athletes are different, their World is different, their physiology is different, their motivation is different, their mentality is different, their self-confidance is different, their personality is different, and at the end for you becomes natural and easy what for other coaches is complicated and difficult.
This is why for me is normal to have 11 World Champions (this year 2 in HM, Florence Kiplagat and after 22' Wilson Kiprop) and globally 28 medals in World Championships with 20 different athletes, like to have some athlete improving in Italian Master Championships for the caegory 70 years.
Because Athletics is a passion, and to be a coach is to give a service for helping other people in fulfil their dreams, at every level.
If you want to know better something from me, come in Charlotte from 5 to 8 of next January, when I'm in the Summit. For speaking about me, is better to know me, because too many people speaks without knowing my motivations and my choices of life.
Excellent post.
You're the man Renato - please keep posting
This is an amazing record of success. Molto bene!
You mentioned that you enjoy coaching very much, but are you able to make a good living coaching? Even as one of the best coaches in the world, do you make a sacrifice to your standard of living to coach?
Do the slower ones have to provide their own EPO?
Francesco Arese ?
It's interesting to note that when EPO was first used in the pro-cycling peloton (early 90s), this also coincided with a very prominent upsurge in performances from Italian and Spanish distance runners. (As well as Moroccan runners, who predominantly trained in Italy.)
It's not under any question that a large number of Spanish and Italian cyclists were using (and have continued to do so).
So the two countries that took advantage of this new doping method the most in cycling now became good at running? Are we supposed to believe that this is some sort of coincidence?
Way to call Renato out, trollism! Brass balls. Oh wait, you're anonymous.
He is anonymous, but he reminds me of a certain disgruntled coach from England who coaches a well known woman runner. He's always been jealous of Renato in the 7 plus years Renato has been posting here.
cabana wrote:
He is anonymous, but he reminds me of a certain disgruntled coach from England who coaches a well known woman runner. He's always been jealous of Renato in the 7 plus years Renato has been posting here.
This is exciting stuff. Who am I supposed to be this time?
Last time I was Paul Evans.
I wasn't really calling out Canova though. Just asking whether the upsurge in Spanish/Italian/Moroccan performances in the 90s, that coincided with the introduction of EPO, was a coincidence or not?
John Doe. wrote:
average elites.
What the heck is an 'average elite'? If they are average, they certainly aren't elite.
Call it wrote:
John Doe. wrote:average elites.
What the heck is an 'average elite'? If they are average, they certainly aren't elite.
Someone like Jorge Torres. Theyre elite but theyre never gonna win anything. Hence average elite.
Trollism, I can answer that the best period for Italian runners was before 90's (so, before EPO).
Do you remember 10000m in Stuttgart (European Championships)'86, with Mei, Cova an Antibo top 3 ? Do you remember WCH '87, with Panetta winning steeple ? Do you remember OG '88, with Bordin winning Marathon and Antibo silver in 10000m ?
In 1990, Italy won in European Championships a lot of medal : Gold in 5000 / 10000m with Antibo, in steeple with Panetta, in Marathon with Bordin, silver with Viali in 800, Di Napoli in 1500, bronze with Mei in 10000, Lambruschini in steeple, Brunet in 3000m W.
At the end of the season (at that time, I was the National Responsible), we went to Dublin for the World Road Race Champs W in 15 km, and I had the opportunity to read the magazine "IRISH RUNNER". There was the article commenting ECh, where it was written that "there was in Split a Country cintinuing to use the emotransfusion, because it was not possible to win so many medals without doping".
During the final press conference, I went to speak, asking to Noel Carrol (he was the responsible director of the magazine): "8-4 years ago in UK you had athletes able running under 3'30" in 1500, 13'10" in 5000 (European Champion 1986 Buckner), 27'30" in 10000 (Bedford and Brendan Foster). Now, from when there are doping control, your athletes are no more able to run 3'35" / 13'30' / 28'30". In ECh 1978, the number 9 in 10000m, Kvalheim from Norway, ran 27'41" ; in ECh 1986, 3 Italian won running under 28'. This year, Antibo ran like before, but the 2nd ran 28'02" and Mei, champion in 1986, ran 28'03", while the British runners disappeared. So, we continue to maintain the same times of before during a period with tough doping controls, while you lost 10% of your performances. At the end, who do you think was under doping, the Italian that continue running like before, or all the other that lost 10% in their performances ?"
And nobody was able to reply.....
I hate trolls...
Tough doping controls?
There wasn't a test for EPO until 1999 and has there has never been a test that can detect a autologous blood transfusion (until perhaps recently with Contador's demise.)
Maybe those Brits were blood doping, who knows. It doesn't mean that the Italians, who have since the 80s shown a complete disregard for doping laws particularly in cycling, weren't involved too.
Renato:
Do you have any plans to coach US athletes? If you had a choice, which elite US distance runner do you think would benefit the MOST from your coaching?
renato you forgot baldini, the greatest italian athlete you have coached
i remember an interview in which you said he could break the wr
Wrong, I never coached Baldini. Stefano's coach was one of the best coaches in the World, and was as an elder brother for me : Luciano Gigliotti.
We were, together, the national responsible for middle and long distances for many years. We were in the Italian National Center (Tirrenia) during all winter, for many years, working together and discussing every training of our athletes without jealousy. We planned the most part of training together, but DIRECTLY I had a group, Lucio other athletes. That's the reason because I know everything about Baldini. But to be the coach means to have possibility of intervene on the psychology of the athlete, in order to organise his mind in the right direction, and it's not possible to have 2 persons doing this, because everybody has a personal character and a personal feeling, and if two coaches go to speak with one athlete about, for example, how to organise his life, probably can have two different vision, creating confusion in the mind of the "final user".
Other thing is to create, together, a training plan and to discuss about the strategy. This is part of the work of preparation, but at the end the personal relation with the athletes must be with one coach only.