Please help: If VERY hard work = terrible times -- does this mean I have no talent?

Short answer, No. Your training is just completely off. I've seen it before a hundred times. How many of your miles were within 1 minute of your 5k PR pace? How many within 30 seconds? If your answer is "barely any", then you trained much too slow. In fact, you basically trained your body to be able to run a lot, not run fast. You don't need to be doing interval workouts 4 times a week to be a good runner, but you do need to properly train your aerobic system and challenge your body in the correct way to benefit from training. If I were you, I would experiment for a while. cut down to 40 miles per week, run everything 30 seconds to a minute faster per mile (minus about 2 recovery days in which you can run as easy as you like), make sure you are ON TOP of your nutrition as you have probably abused your body during the 90 mile weeks to the point your muscles aren't fully fueled, and see what happens. Good luck.

Maybe you should work on your positive thinking! ! !

Seriously, think about what you do well and take pride in that. Not that many guys run 90 mpw so that's something. It also takes time for training and mileage to seep in. Maybe you need to run longer races. A 64 10 miler is better than a 19:12 5k.

Anyway, when you get older you will realize that running is not just about your race results. So don't quit. Just enjoy being a healthy 24 yo guy, who still has 15 years to improve.

At age 24, you've only been running 2 years, and you're already up to 90 miles per week? I think that's unusual.

It looks like you have the volume thing down, now you need to work the intensity thing, as was mentioned earlier.

What training books have you been reading and/or following?

2 years? I smell inconsistency in your training. 90 mi is the peak not the avg.

I agree with IllinoisMaster. You are very unusual. I don't believe you're that bad. Do you had bad habits like social smoking that is throwing you times off? Keep it to yourself if yes. You know what to do if you wanna run faster.

90 mpw is a LOT of work for a 19:12 at 24 and assuming that you are male. Even if you were doing everything wrong, you should expect better results.

I would consult with the 50+ year olds to see if they could offer you some advice. Otherwise, if it brings meaning/purpose keep it up, but don't expect much more improvement. Some people are naturally better/worse than others in particular activities.

All of the naturally gifted distance runners here would fail at power lifting, no matter how hard they trained, and Usain Bolt couldn't run within half an hour of the world record for the marathon ... and maybe not even within an hour of the world record.

PS: I admire your hard work and dedication in the face of mediocre results.

Try holding 90mpw for 4-5 months at an easy pace (with progression runs/threshold workouts) then, of course after a 5km race, come and ask your question.

drinker wrote:

I agree with IllinoisMaster. You are very unusual. I don't believe you're that bad. Do you had bad habits like social smoking that is throwing you times off? Keep it to yourself if yes. You know what to do if you wanna run faster.

Nope -- and my diet is impeccable.

Now, I'm probably a bit big -- 6'2 and 175 lbs or so -- so I guess that's a bit fat for running.

I really hoped that I'd eventually get down to sub-18 someday though -- is this at least a possibility with years of consistency?

The flea wrote:

PS: I admire your hard work and dedication in the face of mediocre results.

Well thank you. But hard work is only as good as what you get out of it

First of all, you have to learn to enjoy it. I have a close friend who is much slower than you (5 hour marathons) but he enjoys it. My marathon PR is 2:18 but one of my all time most satisfying "races" was running the Paris Marathon in 3:09 back in 2007. I was happy as hell just to finish.

Second, you haven't posted much about your training.

If you wake up at 5:00am every morning, and start your day with 5 or 6 miles, then run about the same distance in the afernoon or evening, (or a hard track workout 2 times a week) I guaran-fkn-tee you that you will get below 18 minutes in a few months.

Also you should order some 666 Energy Drink so you can be psycho on race day:

www.666energy.com

It depends on the kind of miles you're running. When you hear of guys running 17:30 off 50 miles a week, they may be training more intensely than you. An example of one - de Castella ran a 29 min 10 k at HS off 80 km a week, then ran a min faster as an adult off 3 times as many ks. Those extra ks weren't more 400s or tempos, they were longer long runs and morning jogs. These helped his track times marginally, but probably improved his marathon performance a lot. Keep at it.

You have only been running for two years. Its not THAT bad for an adult (mind you its not that good either haha). Read a good book on training and hang in there. You will get faster. I agree with PP's that 90 is alot for someone only running two years. But right now (at your advanced age) your lack of lifetime mileage is going to limit you to a certain extent. YOu cant do it in a microwave fashion. Hang in there and have some patience.

I really hoped that I'd eventually get down to sub-18 someday though -- is this at least a possibility with years of consistency?[/quote]

You could break 17 no prob one day.

Be consistent and give it time. You are running more than enough, just need time for the body to adjust.

Yes, yes it is that bad - for a guy who is 24, that is bad. I would expect that a decently fit male, who s cut out for distance running would be able to run 19:xx within 3 months.Again, I admire the perseverance of the OP, but as he said, it really is all about results. I am over 40 and run a few days a week to keep from getting fat, given 3 months of training, I could run 19:12 at 5000+ ft altitude.

3Cent wrote:

You have only been running for two years. Its not THAT bad for an adult (mind you its not that good either haha).

I'll wager that you don't have a lot of natural talent. But if you can stay healthy and continue to run 70 MPW or more, you'll probably squeeze some better times out of your untalented body.

Dude, are you doing enough fast stuff? Why not try half the mileage with some more intensity?

I know that everybody on here preaches mileage, mileage mileage, and sure, mileage is important, but going out and jogging around is not the best way to train. You need to get to where you can handle 50 miles a week with some real intensity before you start hitting 70 or 80 a week.

Also, you may be doing more mileage than you can handle and burning yourself out for speedwork and races. Sure, Haile Gebreselassie and Chris Solinsky do lots and lots of miles, but they don't run 19 minutes for the 5k.

I was where you were after a year and a half of running again, though in my mid to late thirties and on only about 25 to 30 mpw, and what brought my times down by three minutes was to lift the miles AND run two workouts a week with a group. After just a few workouts (mileage by that time up to 70 or 80, I was able to break 30 for 5 miles for the first time since college and the drops continued to be steep for two more years. Really push your tempo and track workouts hard with people who are better than you now, and run really slow when you need your recovery. You will find that you can push yourself much harder than now. And it wouldn't hurt to lose ten or fifteen pounds.