Andrew Wheating 1.44.62!!!!

Yeah-- gets 5th and never factors in the race? Remember that with lane-2 conversion he pretty much ran a 1:43.8 at the OT two years ago!! With that in mind, anything other than a shocking incinerator upset of Kaki is disappointing. A 1:43 guy is kidding himself if he's pleased with a 1:44.6 no-factor.

LRC are quick to celebrate mediocrity so long as it's packaged in a fresh-faced young white boy (from Oregon).

And Kaki is FOS -- WR attempts turn out as 2:13.7 and 1:43.5?!

Can't steal my heat bitch

Retardalert. wrote:

trialswatcher wrote:

Indeed, not quite a Steve Cram. people need a perspective.

U.S. 800M running in general is just not very good, folks trumpet the 1:44.x as a 1:43 waiting to happen when guys ran that 25-42 years ago.

There are reasons why guys ran crazy fast 800's 30 years ago, and it wasn't skill. It was lack of drug testing or acknowledgement of drugs, when drugs were insanely rampant in track and field. (not that they aren't now). Coe and Cram were both drugged up. It wasn't really a choice back then. Every country was doing it, everyone turned a blind eye, everyone.

Actually you are the retard, the poster was referring to U.S. 800 running -- and the USA guys were mostly not drugged, a little steroid dabbling when steroids were still legal and experimental for runners.

Mostly the U.S. guys over trained and burned out, couldn't make a living college etc. Most of the Villanova guys burned out...

kid needs to learn to race like he's interested in being one of the best. second race in a row he's had one of the best finishes in a super-elite field.

time to try not being in last place on the outside of lane 3 with 120m to go...

Arcane Denial wrote:

Yeah-- gets 5th and never factors in the race? Remember that with lane-2 conversion he pretty much ran a 1:43.8 at the OT two years ago!! With that in mind, anything other than a shocking incinerator upset of Kaki is disappointing. A 1:43 guy is kidding himself if he's pleased with a 1:44.6 no-factor.

LRC are quick to celebrate mediocrity so long as it's packaged in a fresh-faced young white boy (from Oregon).

And Kaki is FOS -- WR attempts turn out as 2:13.7 and 1:43.5?!

Get your facts straight; he got FOURTH.

Steve Cram 800 m 1:42.88 1985

There are reasons why guys ran crazy fast 800's 30 years ago, and it wasn't skill. It was lack of drug testing or acknowledgement of drugs, when drugs were insanely rampant in track and field. (not that they aren't now). Coe and Cram were both drugged up. It wasn't really a choice back then. Every country was doing it, everyone turned a blind eye, everyone.[/quote]

Do you have any evidence of that?

If you were right how come the 800m has not moved on as much as the 100m?

Drugs like EPO didn't even exist then and steroids don't work for men on middle/ long distances. Coe, Ovett and Cram beat East German athletes who were later proved to be on a drug programme

Then I'm sure you will bring up blood doping. Well they could still do that. I don't remember any athlete ever failing a test for that which brings up 2 things 1) They could still blood dope and get way with it 2) If it was that effective why would any athlete risk taking EPO?

They had the talent and thats all there is to it.

You are right. The guys may have used some sort of blood doping (blood transfusions), but EPO is simply a different class.

The sudden disappearance of West Europeans (and Europeans as a whole) from track after 1985 also raises questions, how the events would develop, if they continued participating. Since East Africans clearly possess much better physiques for long distances, it probably wouldn't change much in the 3-10 km. However, since Europeans (and I mean West Europeans in particular) may have the best physical predispositions for the 400-1500 m among all humans, the current stagnation of these disciplines may also be due to their meager participation and not only due to the ineffeciency of the current doping arsenal at these distances. If you actually look at the list of world record holders in the 800/1500 m before 1985, you will find exclusively European names in the 800 m and only 2 Africans in the 1500 m. (Please, don't be confused by the current domination of blacks in the 400 m; it has little to do with genetics, because there exists no clear biological explanation for it.)

Retardalert. wrote:

trialswatcher wrote:

Indeed, not quite a Steve Cram. people need a perspective.

U.S. 800M running in general is just not very good, folks trumpet the 1:44.x as a 1:43 waiting to happen when guys ran that 25-42 years ago.

There are reasons why guys ran crazy fast 800's 30 years ago, and it wasn't skill. It was lack of drug testing or acknowledgement of drugs, when drugs were insanely rampant in track and field. (not that they aren't now). Coe and Cram were both drugged up. It wasn't really a choice back then. Every country was doing it, everyone turned a blind eye, everyone.

Lol! What a crock of shit. The BAAB were doing random out of competition testing from 1981 (long before the IAAF), and out of season random testing from 1985 (the IAAF didn't start this until 1989). Coe was probably the most tested athlete during the 1980's.

The idea that Coe, Cram or Ovett were doping is ludicrous, based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever. What about Scott and Gray? I bet you think they were clean (which I do too), and it was only those dreadful cheating Brits which kept the good old US athletes from being on the top of the pile where they belong!

The GDR dominated women's athletics and men's field events, largely because of a state run drug programme. That is why Koch and Goehr were able to beat Kathy Cook so easily. Steroids are hugely beneficial to power and speed events, and have a greater impact on women than men. Beyer was able to beat Coe & Ovett at the 78 Europeans and I still believe Straub was on something in Moscow. How were they able to do this?

1) They only random testing in the GDR was to test that their athletes would pass the testing outside Germany.

2) Both Moscow and Prague were behind the iron Curtain.

The rest of the time when they ran in the West, these athletes did v. little of note. Having said that, steroids wouldn't have been particularly useful to middle and long distance men anyway. Otherwise why didn't the East Europeans dominate these events also?

The reason these guys ran so fast 30 years ago was talent and hard work.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Drugs like EPO didn't even exist then and steroids don't work for men on middle/ long distances.

Steroids don't help the muscles repair faster after 20 200's, intense plyo's or weightlifting?

Coach Owl Birdo wrote:

Steroids don't help the muscles repair faster after 20 200's, intense plyo's or weightlifting?

Same brilliant posters who laughed at the concept of a sprinter using EPO.

The BAAB?!! Ha ha ha, you're kidding me, right? They had the technology and funding of my local daycare.

Cart wrote:

Steve Cram 800 m 1:42.88 1985

And of course that was Cram's first 800m after leaving school, right?

Republi-cans wrote:

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

The U.S. did not produce Lagat. Kenah won an 800 wc medal in the 90s. There was a drought in American distance running after the 1980s.

So let me understand this. Since the 1980\'s Spence, Kastor, Gray, Meb, Lynn Jennings, Spivey, Flanagan, Kara Goucher have won major championship medals but now the drought is over because Wheating got fourth in a diamond league meet?

I don\'t need to tell you that U.S. lists were very, very poor in the distances from the early 1990s until around 2005 or that high school lists began to rebound after 1997 and that they became comparable to the 1970s and early 1980s only after 2000: we are now reaping the bounty of all that depth at the high school level in the early part of the decade.

A video from the race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30qbzCKq1UU&feature=player_embedded

bart300000 wrote:

A video from the race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30qbzCKq1UU&feature=player_embedded

Oh wow, thanks for that! With better tactics, Wheating runs 1:43 easy. He runs every curve in lane 2 the whole time before finally getting thrown out to lane 3 on the final turn. He had a huge kick as well and was still flying through the line while the others faded. I hope we see him running more aggressively in the future now that he knows he can hang... like just go draft off the rabbit and see what happens. I can dream!

Wheating fanatic wrote:

Oh wow, thanks for that! With better tactics, Wheating runs 1:43 easy. He runs every curve in lane 2 the whole time before finally getting thrown out to lane 3 on the final turn. He had a huge kick as well and was still flying through the line while the others faded. I hope we see him running more aggressively in the future now that he knows he can hang... like just go draft off the rabbit and see what happens. I can dream!

Go draft off the rabbit? KD went out in 49.6 was it? After watching the race a few times Wheating actually went out too hard. He probably hit just under 51. How is that not agressive for a guy who coming in had never run under 1:45? People are getting too ahead of themselves. A 51 mid is a nice pace for someone trying to get a pr who has run 1:44.6 now. He shouldn't be going out more aggressive than he did in this race, although i agree he didn't need to go to lane 2 at teh 400 mark, but his final move was a good one.

Let's let him get under 1:44 before we start talking about going out in under 51. And let him get to low 1:43/AR type times before saying he should tuck behind the rabbit who went out in 49.6.

Wheating fanatic wrote:

bart300000 wrote:

A video from the race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30qbzCKq1UU&feature=player_embedded

Oh wow, thanks for that! With better tactics, Wheating runs 1:43 easy. He runs every curve in lane 2 the whole time before finally getting thrown out to lane 3 on the final turn. He had a huge kick as well and was still flying through the line while the others faded. I hope we see him running more aggressively in the future now that he knows he can hang... like just go draft off the rabbit and see what happens. I can dream!

He doesn't run every curve and all the curve in lane 2! But he does run wide on the 3rd and most of the last curve in lane 2. Had he run just 800m rather than about 805.5m, then he would have been just under 1:44.0

Looking at the video his 200m splits were: - 25.1, 25.9 (51.0), 26.8 (1:17.8) and 26.8. Or two 400s of 51.0 & 53.6

He pretty much ran the curve after 200m on the inside of lane 1, but he ran some of the curve after the bell in lane 2 and quite a bit wide on the outside of lane 1. He probably ran about 2m extra (taking the fact that a whole curve in lane 2 is 3.5m extra), worth about 0.3.

Once he hit the 600m point, he ran the entire last bend in lane 2. That's 3.5m further or about 0.5sec. That makes his last 200m worth about 26.3, probably faster than anyone else's in the race. Kaki's was 26.6, but then he did run from the front.

Interestingly, Wheating's last 100m was 13.1, a tenth faster than Kaki's 13.2.

So, in an ideal world, Wheating runs 1:43.8 with 200m splits of: - 25.1, 25.9, 26.5 and 26.3 (51.0, 52.8). Pretty even splits.

Compare these to the winner's split times.

24.0, 26.4 (50.4), 26.5 (1:16.9) & 26.6 (50.4, 53.1)

Look for Wheating running in the 1:43's in the next couple of weeks.

What makes you think he won't have to move out into lane 2 in the next race and the race after that and so on. You idiots think is somehow going to be on the pole with zero interruptions. Thats not how it works, especially based on his from behind racing style. He is not 1:43 easy. That was his perfect race, the splits could not have been any better.