How can this be hard to understand?
Why would you have a high school kid running nearly two hours?
College kids would not need two hour runs.
I would cap anything over 90 minutes, regardless of miles.
You are not training for a marathon.
Think return on investment. What are you getting out of your training, at what cost, at what risk.
You can train a lot with low risk/high return. It is not hard to figure out. First,Toss out your books and formulas.
First Boom Runner wrote:
Malmo,
Would not a biweekly longer run of up to 15 miles be beneficial in a SOM? I know you're not big on long runs but 10 miles is not very long even for a kid in HS. Also what about the occasional short road race like 5km in the SOM?
When Malmo has discussed the topic of long runs people have thought he is against them which is certainly not the case if you look carefully at what hes saying.
Malmo hasn't said he's not big on long runs, he's said that it is best to address all of the other areas in training first and long runs should be proportional to your weekly mileage.
Its probably more accurate to say: "people have thought he is either against them or not a big believer in them"
First Boom Runner wrote:
Also what about the occasional short road race like 5km in the SOM?
Do people bother to read SOM before posting questions about SOM? Seriously.
70 in singles is a lot of running for people who aren't used to doing a lot of running. I'm trying to get there in about 2 months and that makes my main run roughly 10 miles, possibly more. That's a lot for somebody doing 5ks and 8ks to me. And Malmo is right (as always), more training sessions the better. But due to summer heat I'm having to run my miles in singles, but my double stimulus will come from afternoon biking, which will be at 206 miles a week the same week I run 70 miles.
Long runs of up to 15 miles make the 10 milers feel easier. If the 10milers feel easier you can run them a little faster. Hence your fitness improves, a$$hole. By the way I ran loads of 13.1 races in JrH and HS and they didn't hurt me one bit. What's with treating 15-18 yr olds like china dolls? If he can handle 70mpw he can handle some longer runs. Read the fricking threads on the benefits of long runs you dumbass.
The reason I asked about the occasional 5km race is because it wasn't addressed in the SOM thread which I did read, bonehead. I'm not effing stupid. I am asking if there is anything wrong with running a couple of 5kms for kicks and giggles. Then again, my bad for asking a question on this anyway, I suppose I can do a few races if I wanted to. Screw you.
First Boom Runner wrote:
The reason I asked about the occasional 5km race is because it wasn't addressed in the SOM thread which I did read, bonehead. I'm not effing stupid.
Q: I want to run some summer road races, can I?
A: Sure, why not? As long as these races are not the end-all. You've got bigger fish to fry in the fall so take it easy. Who are you trying to impress in the summer anyway? Not me, baby. Save it for later. If you've got the discipline then run your tempo run during these races. Alright, I know that everyone has one race that they'd like to concentrate on, go ahead and go for it. Just don't make it a weekly habit.
Whose the stupid bonehead now???
Here's a link. Guess how I found that page.
Woah woah woah, why the agression? I'm just saying 10 miles is a lot for beginning runners. Most of the top HS runners say they run low mileage. Jay Johnson had a blog post about being a 40ish mpw guy in HS with a long run of like 7 miles with a 3200m PR in the 9:40 range
First Boom Runner wrote:
If the 10milers feel easier you can run them a little faster. Hence your fitness improves, a$$hole. w
ummm what now? wrote:
I run around 70 miles a week, doubling up 4 times a week (maybe 5). My long run is only around 12 miles... something I have hit occasionally on the other days but with 2 runs. Some people tell me my long run should be 20%, so at least 14 miles. Should I increase the long run?
I don't think you increase the long run at your given mileage either, but I don't personally feel you need to start doubling until your other six runs are up to 8 miles. That's 60 total in seven runs. Once you are comfortable there, then add some doubles, as many as you'd like, but at least three to get your 70+ total. That's how I would've done it, had I to do it over again.
Generally though, listen to Malmo. It probably is less arduous to start doubling first to get to that comfort level before an eight mile run becomes your staple, with a long run of no more than 12 miles. Lots of changing clothes and showering though.
And by the way, as an upperclassman, shoot for the "1000-mile" summer and hold as long as possible through cross until you start your taper. That's roughly four in the morning five days a week, eight at six days a week, and a 12-miler on the weekend. No need to do any more than that. You could/should drop one of the eight mile runs out and just do an easy four mile day for a rest every now and again.
This is what my schedule looks like now:
day 1 - AM: 4 PM: 7
day 2 - AM: 4 PM: 8 (some sort of workout)
day 3 - 7
day 4 - AM: 3-4 PM: 6-7
day 5 - AM: 4 PM: 8 (some sort of workout)
day 6 - 6
day 7 - 12
In college, your staple will be a 10-mile afternoon run, perhaps five miles several mornings per week, and a 15-miler on the weekend if you want to maximize your potential. But you risk injury if you jump right into it or hit your runs too hard. The pace will come to you.
ummm what now? wrote:
This is what my schedule looks like now:
day 1 - AM: 4 PM: 7
day 2 - AM: 4 PM: 8 (some sort of workout)
day 3 - 7
day 4 - AM: 3-4 PM: 6-7
day 5 - AM: 4 PM: 8 (some sort of workout)
day 6 - 6
day 7 - 12
Actually, that's really not bad at all and not far off from what I suggested. You've worked in some rest days and have plenty of longish runs. You probably don't change anything. You're already doing 55 in the afternoons.
Yes, if I want to add more, should I extend the morning run or the evening run? Also, my long run of 12 is usually the most I go... I should probably work that up. Actually, I will even run just around 10 sometimes. The thing is that I bonk on long runs (especially when I have to run it in the sun... even if it is like 70-80 degrees, the radiant sun kills me). Today I just stopped at around 10 (felt bad, not even a fast pace).
I am considering on days like this where I don't feel that great or stop at 10, of adding another 3-4 miles in the evening. I've read on other sites you shouldn't double up on your long run day, but considering my long run isn't even that long...
Arguing about the theory or exact numbers? The numbers are definitely made up and probably underestimate how many additional miles doubling can get you.
malmo wrote:
dasfasd@hasd.com wrote:Or the other way, if your doing 70 in doubles, you could only do 60 in singles.
WTF?
Personally, I would extend, but not overextend, the evening runs and/or maybe add one more double. Don't really need to increase the long run. 4/8 as many days as possible, maybe one lower day, and then your long run. That's my recipe.
Don't see why you couldn't double on your long run day, especially if you cut it short. Just build in a rest day the following day. Of course, if you already feel like shit on the long run, doubling doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. Let your body be your coach.
Well I often feel bad in the morning but then better in the evening. Yesterday I did my longer run in the morning and shorter one in the evening and felt much better on the evening run (felt bad on the morning one).
The next day I always run easy, though typically doubles (such as 4/7).
now why in the world is an 18 minute 5k runner hitting 70 miles per week... completely unnecessary. Might be a sign you are overworking him. I have never broken 55 and run 15:30...
Don't get hung up purely on the number of miles... more is not better