well at least you try wrote:
Father Time wrote:The leader's surged
What's a surged look like and where can I get one?
Kind of like a Swatch.
well at least you try wrote:
Father Time wrote:The leader's surged
What's a surged look like and where can I get one?
Kind of like a Swatch.
Who says you have to go with the surge and then do a gut check? Can't you feel whether or not you should go with the surge?
Ryan wasn't going to finish any faster than he did that day. Staying with the leaders would have made his race slower, unless he was in shape to run 2:05:50 at Boston, which he wasn't.
duckshirt wrote:
Ryan wasn't going to finish any faster than he did that day. Staying with the leaders would have made his race slower, unless he was in shape to run 2:05:50 at Boston, which he wasn't.
You don't know that. You're just projecting, like everybody else. Does everybody really know their bodies and minds that well? Our energy certainly ebbs and flows. Can one never surprise oneself? Slaves to the watch will never exceed there expectations.
Furthermore, it wasn't 2:05:50 to get on the podium. He was 1:18 off second place.
I meant "their" expectation, of course.
American Way wrote:
It was a calculated decision...he evaluated the risk of surging past what he knew his body was capable of and realized that he was more likely to run a good time and probably finish higher if he didn't surge. He probably also assumed that the leaders might fall apart from the surge as well, and come back to him. I think it was more of a race strategy to place well than you give him credit.
...what he knew his body was capable of...
This is my point. He evaluated it based on what his watch told him and what he *thought* he was capable of. Not what he felt. Without the watch, he would have had to make the decision based on what his body was telling him. It may have told him - too much. But then again, he might have been fine.
Father Time wrote:
Dear Mr. Hall,
I'm a big fan, BUT...
In Boston, you said you'd run free, but you checked your watch like you have OCD. It's become a problem.
The leader's surged in Boston. You checked your watch - yep, if I run any faster than my current 4:50 mile, I'm gonna blow up. Your head got in the way.
Without your watch, you do a gut check. You don't know what your pace is... so you go with the surge. How does it feel? If it feels OK, you stay with it. If it feels like you're gonna blow up, you back off.
Use the watch on the track for speed work. But please leave it at home for Chicago.
AGREE AGREE AGREE!!! well said!
to the idiot who said "how many 2:10 marathons have you run": you are a moron, how many 1:48s has Vig run? None but he can still coach Robbie Andrews and give him advice.
Meb has soooo much more guts than ryan hall does and I used to be a big fan of Ryan Hall. Meb races, ryan does time trials in the middle of big races.
Ryan Hall, Ditch the watch, try to race, go with the pack if you feel good, race! Race, boy, race!
Seriously dude, what gives? Have you run the times like he has? No to need to criticize unless you can afford a Rolex...*sighs"....Seriously, get a life!
Like I said, Ryan Hall beat Mebrahtom Keflezighi. Am I missing something?
Musiker wrote:
Like I said, Ryan Hall beat Mebrahtom Keflezighi. Am I missing something?
Yes, you are missing something. As they say, "you betta aks sumbody."
Here, I'll enlighten you: Meb could have won the Boston Marathon like he did NYC. Meb tried to put himself in a position to win like he did in NYC-ryan never even was in a position to win. Meb raced in NYC, put himself in a position to win and it paid off. He did the same in Boston and it didnt, he blew his wad and got caught by someone who didnt have the balls to put himself in a position to win.
Ryan, we know you can finish in the top 10, that is great, you've done it many times by now. When a group of people start pulling away from you remember this: they are not ALL going to die. A few of those will hang on and one of those that hangs on will win like Meb did in NYC. Go with that group! If you run out of juice and fade who cares? We will respect you more for going for it!
bump
I would rather win NYC than finish top 5 in Boston.
the point is that in order to win a major marathon, you have to take some risks, because not everyone is going to blow up. in Olympic marathons, the chances of a really fast time have been low for years and a lot of the fastest tend to drop out if conditions are rough and they may want to save themselves for a lucrative fall marathon, so more conservative strategies usually work better (not REALLY conservative, though). At Beijing, despite the unbelievable day that Wanjiru had, a medal was to be had by Hall if his training had gone well and he had targeted 2:08/9.
Father Time wrote:
Dear Mr. Hall,
I'm a big fan, BUT...
In Boston, you said you'd run free, but you checked your watch like you have OCD. It's become a problem.
The leader's surged in Boston. You checked your watch - yep, if I run any faster than my current 4:50 mile, I'm gonna blow up. Your head got in the way.
Without your watch, you do a gut check. You don't know what your pace is... so you go with the surge. How does it feel? If it feels OK, you stay with it. If it feels like you're gonna blow up, you back off.
Use the watch on the track for speed work. But please leave it at home for Chicago.
I would rather see Hall or any other runner use a watch and run a well paced raced than listen to "elites" complain that "the pace wasn't there" or drop out for running stupid(too quickly at points).
Hall and his coach(es) probably have a very good idea of what his dream race potential is. Much more so than people on the boards...
Lastly, if he is in the lead pack in Chicago he will not need to look at his watch - the lead vehicle will display, last k and/or mile splits and projected finish time.
Another View wrote:
Lastly, if he is in the lead pack in Chicago he will not need to look at his watch - the lead vehicle will display, last k and/or mile splits and projected finish time.
True, he won't need to, but I bet you he will anyway.
thebestestever wrote:
It is easy to see when you need to change gears. Bottom line, Hall responds to his watch not his competitors. Even more so, Hall doesn't make it to where his competitors must respond to him.
That's a load of crap. Hall runs the best he can, and gives himself the best chance to win he can. If that means not going with the surge, so be it.
People also so quickly forget, Ryan hall taking surging to the lead at London against many greats, including Haile G.
Mrr82 wrote:
People also so quickly forget, Ryan hall taking surging to the lead at London against many greats, including Haile G.
I think people's observation or concern or whatever you want to call it is that it's hard to imagine him doing that now. People haven't forgotten that move at all; they wonder why the person who made it now more than often than not seems detached from what the other runners around and in front of him are doing.
trotty moore wrote:
SMJO wrote:Racing like that is a wise decision in a championship race on a hot day(Athens was hot I think), it is a poor choice in a regular race.
Racing is wierd because Beijing was hot and Hall just put himself way too far back to contend. It becomes a balance I think and Hall has just not gotten it right yet.
You have to be prepared to think on your feet and follow the right strategy for you relative to the course, field, and weather on the day. Maybe Hall just isn't smart enough to make those types of decisions successfully, I wouldn't know. The one who is best prepared will win, the one who is second-best prepared will finish 2nd, etc. Hall has never been the best prepared runner in the field for a marathon other than the OT.
smd wrote:
I think people's observation or concern or whatever you want to call it is that it's hard to imagine him doing that now. People haven't forgotten that move at all; they wonder why the person who made it now more than often than not seems detached from what the other runners around and in front of him are doing.
He hasn't been able to replicate his fitness in recent years. That would be the obvious reason why he hasn't been so bold. There is no point in doing such moves, if you can't actually follow through. A moment of glory is pointless if it's your downfall in the end.
Mrr82 wrote:
smd wrote:I think people's observation or concern or whatever you want to call it is that it's hard to imagine him doing that now. People haven't forgotten that move at all; they wonder why the person who made it now more than often than not seems detached from what the other runners around and in front of him are doing.
He hasn't been able to replicate his fitness in recent years. That would be the obvious reason why he hasn't been so bold. There is no point in doing such moves, if you can't actually follow through. A moment of glory is pointless if it's your downfall in the end.
I agree, which then leads to people wondering why he hasn't been able to replicate that fitness of January 2007-April 2008.
lucKY2b wrote:
duckshirt wrote:Ryan wasn't going to finish any faster than he did that day. Staying with the leaders would have made his race slower, unless he was in shape to run 2:05:50 at Boston, which he wasn't.
You don't know that. You're just projecting, like everybody else. Does everybody really know their bodies and minds that well? Our energy certainly ebbs and flows. Can one never surprise oneself? Slaves to the watch will never exceed there expectations.
Furthermore, it wasn't 2:05:50 to get on the podium. He was 1:18 off second place.
You contradict yourself by saying one cannot know another's body because "they're just projecting" but then you assume everyone who follows splits is a "slave" to the watch.