Ryan Hall. Throw away your watch.

How many sub 210 marathons have you run?

ummmm 210? wrote:

How many sub 210 marathons have you run?

Is running sub 2:10 the only goal? At some point shouldn't a professional runner try to win? I guess if a runner is satisfied with being a top 10 and nothing else then that is OK.

Father Time wrote:

Use the watch on the track for speed work. But please leave it at home for Chicago.

When I first saw this thread I thought it would be one of those throw-away-your-watch-and-do-all-your-training-by-feel type threads. But I completely agree. RYAN HALL DID NOT RACE THE BOSTON MARATHON THIS YEAR. He ran a very fast time but did not race a single step. He probably didn't kick down Merga (who he lost to by 2 seconds) because it wasn't in his split schedule he had written on his left arm.

Deena does this in Athens and is lauded.

Hall does this in Boston and is assailed.

They both ran really well.

Racing like that is a wise decision in a championship race on a hot day(Athens was hot I think), it is a poor choice in a regular race.

SMJO wrote:

Racing like that is a wise decision in a championship race on a hot day(Athens was hot I think), it is a poor choice in a regular race.

Racing is wierd because Beijing was hot and Hall just put himself way too far back to contend. It becomes a balance I think and Hall has just not gotten it right yet.

Yes but Deena picked up the pieces in a race of attrition while Hall would have had to run a PB in a race where the field logically should have come back to him, but didn't.

Just when it seemed that non-Africans still had a shot in those hot weather championship races by racing smart, the goalposts have been moved again.

I think Cheruiyot ran sub 2:10... correct me if I'm wrong

It was a calculated decision...he evaluated the risk of surging past what he knew his body was capable of and realized that he was more likely to run a good time and probably finish higher if he didn't surge. He probably also assumed that the leaders might fall apart from the surge as well, and come back to him. I think it was more of a race strategy to place well than you give him credit.

Maybe he should cut his hideous Jesus hair.

SMJO wrote:

Yes but Deena picked up the pieces in a race of attrition while Hall would have had to run a PB in a race where the field logically should have come back to him, but didn't.

Just when it seemed that non-Africans still had a shot in those hot weather championship races by racing smart, the goalposts have been moved again.

It was 100 degrees in Athens!!! A good race strategy in those conditions, but too many women (obviously) also ran stupidly that day as well to allow her back in the race.

There does come a time when you have to decide that guys are not going to come back, and so where are you in terms of making it back yourself - Hall almost caught Merga, who was probably just trying to maintain 3rd anyway or he would have DNF'd earlier. To give Hall some credit, hopefully he is trying out these strategies now to find out what works best for him, it's not like you can do this in training (like an 800m runner) to see how races affect you - much can happen in a marathon. His 2h06 and 59min should have given him the confidence that he can run with these top guys, but that is obviosly easier said than done at times unless you can control the race yourself and not blow up. Perhaps he needs to try again to run off the front later in the race, rather than lead at the beginning, and see what happens. I hope he figures it out for himself eventually.

Hall has already established himself as being able to run the times it takes to win. Now only if he could get that racing thing down. Hell, if we are just focusing on times then why doesn't hall just run time trials every two months and make them into press releases instead of running in racing. Then everyone will still be rejoicing and nothing will have changed.

I haven't raced much, so I'm always curious how the follow the surge strategy results in one running faster than an optimally paced time trial over the same course, resulting in the easy win.

Father Time wrote:

Dear Mr. Hall,

I'm a big fan, BUT...

In Boston, you said you'd run free, but you checked your watch like you have OCD. It's become a problem.

The leader's surged in Boston. You checked your watch - yep, if I run any faster than my current 4:50 mile, I'm gonna blow up. Your head got in the way.

Without your watch, you do a gut check. You don't know what your pace is... so you go with the surge. How does it feel? If it feels OK, you stay with it. If it feels like you're gonna blow up, you back off.

Use the watch on the track for speed work. But please leave it at home for Chicago.

I agree, but check this out:

What is he doing wrong here? It's simple and obvious if you know about Marathon training.

It is easy to see when you need to change gears. Bottom line, Hall responds to his watch not his competitors. Even more so, Hall doesn't make it to where his competitors must respond to him.

It's no use. It's obvious that God loves the Africans more than he loves Hall.

I thought it was weird hearing Hall talk about running "free", while he seemed to be a slave to his watch. You can always run a time trial by yourself, but even then looking at your watch every other minute it just energy wasted.

point? wrote:

ummmm 210? wrote:

How many sub 210 marathons have you run?

Is running sub 2:10 the only goal? At some point shouldn't a professional runner try to win? I guess if a runner is satisfied with being a top 10 and nothing else then that is OK.

Meb "tried to win" at Boston and he ended up getting beat by the guy who apparently "wasn't trying to win." Am I missing something here?

Father Time wrote:

The leader's surged

What's a surged look like and where can I get one?