Is speedwork necessary for Sub-50 400m?

XC training won't "ruin" your speed. However, a lack of speedwork will cause you to temporarily lose speed. So, if you do some speedwork during the XC season along with your distance training, you won't lose your speed. And as another poster stated, the XC training may actually make you a stronger 400m runner. So when you start real speed training again in the winter and spring, combined with the endurance acquired in XC, you could be going sub-50. Your coach is wrong.

Someone who enjoys running wrote:

For what its worth, my high school had worthless sprinters, so we had a 4x4 composed entirely of XC men that could do like 3:20. Of course we would run hard quarters all cross country season (often ending with a few sub 60s), and even the occasional 200, so that might make a difference.

I don't buy this. I would have bought it if you said "3:30" but a 3:20 makes you sound like you are talking out of your ass. A 3:20 4 x 4 would equate to an average of 50s per 400m. All off of hs xc runners? That means you had 4 D1 scholarship guys on your xc team? Were you Mead in the early 90's? Oh wait... they couldn't even do that with the two Davis brothers, James and Autry!!! Shoot man, I was a D1 scholarship guy with multi state awards in HS, I had top 3 times in the state in 400m (3) (not the strongest state for sprinters), 800m (1), 1,500m (1), 3,000m (2) and xc (3) my senior year and I could only run 50.x in the open 4. So I wouldn't even have been on your hs xc 4 x 4 team? I don't think so. No freaking way you had 4 xc guys faster than me in the open 4 on one team. Like I said, during Mead's powerhouse days of the early 90's they couldn't even do a 3:20 flat with xc guys and they went something like 1, 2, 3, 5? (I'm probably wrong here) in xc at state!

Back to the OP. Running xc won't hurt your track season. It more than likely will help you in that you'll have more stamina to withstand more repeats in practice come Winter/Spring training.

maybe you should ask him how fast those cross country guys were in the distance events.

uhhh stupid question...yes u need speed works and yes u will! i run cross and track u need both and i have run under 50 in the open and as a relay split..u need SPEED WORK + ENDURANCE! ur coach is stupid

suckas wrote:

maybe you should ask him how fast those cross country guys were in the distance events.

If a cross country team had 4 guys capable of running a 3:20 4x4, and the 400 wasn't any of their primary events, they would most likely have to be one of the greatest xc teams of all time.

I'm at a loss to name many Div I college teams that have 4 xc guys who could do this.

Thanks for all the responses.....I think I will stick with the XC plan and start track prep in December. I will keep everyone updated on all of my XC races and let you know if I go sub 50 in the spring.

Yeah, you're right, I looked back and discovered that I had the wrong year. We did indeed run 3:20 (and won states), but after getting some decent sprinters. We had 3 or 4 cross country guys (and a soccer player) that split 50 flat at some point, but never on the same day. Two of them split 49 at one point (one was the soccer player). I put together everybody's PR and then made it a 4x4! I hope the kind posters of LRC will forgive me!At least I wasn't exaggerating my own times, as I was never, despite my wishes, part of my school's 4x4 team.

Surprise! wrote:

Someone who enjoys running wrote:

For what its worth, my high school had worthless sprinters, so we had a 4x4 composed entirely of XC men that could do like 3:20. Of course we would run hard quarters all cross country season (often ending with a few sub 60s), and even the occasional 200, so that might make a difference.

You had a 4x4 of cross country runners in high school that could run 3:20?

While not impossible, it seems unlikely as you would've had the fasted 4x4 in several weaker states.

My cross country team ran 3:18; this was over 20 years ago. And, no one on that relay was a sprinter or ran the 400 on a consistent basis. We had a 10.3 sprinter on that XC team, but he was not on 3:18 relay I am referring to.

I was horrible in XC -- my fastest time was a 18:40. But we opened the track season yesterday and I had a pretty good day.

800m Relay Split: 2:07

400m: 51.53

200m: 23.06

High Jump: 6'2

I really didnt know how to run the 800, I just relaxed the 1st lap and finished the second one. My coach keeps telling me I should be a 400/800 specialist. Im not sure if I should do the 200/400 or the 400/800. My question is, Can I go sub 2:00?

And I really want to break 50

This is important- your coach is full of crap. Tell him a real coach said so. XC will make you stronger- that's it. I coach distance runners in track and XC. We've had 400 runners come out for XC and improve tremendously.

It's from the strength they gained. They were mediocre XC runners at best.

One guy went from 63.xx in the 400 hurdles to 56.22 in one freaking season after running xc.

Another kid couldn't break 60 in the FLAT 400 as a freshman. Ran XC and ran 53.xx the next spring. Also broke 40 in the 300 indoors.

Do XC and prove your coach wrong. Oh, and tell him Valeri Borzov ran xc. If he doesn't know who he is he REALLY has no business coaching.

It sounds like you didn't push all that hard in the 800. Which means if you actually learn to run the 800 you could probably run sub-2 and sub-50 is on the radar too.

I like the new username.

Can I assume these new times are outdoors on a full sized track in decent weather?

XC didn't seem to ruin your speed if you went from 24.5 to 23 flat.

And 18:40 isn't bad for not having much distance background.

You can break 50 but will have to do a decent amount of speedwork for some period.

The 400/800 double is usually not feasible in most schedules.

The 800/4X4 is, though.

You may also break 2:00 as well but it may take a number of races to learn it. The 800 is the most difficult race to learn.

I would say focus on the 400 and throw in some 800's here and there since that seems to be your future. Good 400 speed is vital for the 800 and needs to be developed and maximized.

The problem though is colleges look at you junior year times since a school is normally chosen before you get rolling in spring of your senior year.

Good luck