Lee Emanuel of UNM is how old?

It's o.k. Lee is white so LR people don't mind. It's them Arabs, Asians, Africans, Russians, and Jews we don't like coming here and acting like they are better than us regular folk.

Seriously? People complain about the Mormons ALL THE TIME. Way more than UNM.

I have no beef with UNM/Emanuel for playing within the rules, but I think the rules should be changed. The NCAA is not the pro circuit and there is a huge difference between a 19 year old and a 25 year old.

Emmanuel's a great guy. How many other 3:38 guys out there would encourage 4:20 guys during their workout? He was doing his workouts at the same time as everyone else at UNM when I was training there, though he wasn't doing the same workouts as the other guys because they were a lot slower. And he was doing a great deal with relatively little work, so I think that he's going to be running 3:32/3 when he runs on the European circuit.

The eligibility issue is foolish. Why limit eligibility at all? Why should age be an issue for adult competition? Just let the best get out there and by allowing older runners in you will get more years of developmental time for runners, as compared to the current system where only a few top guys are funded after 22/23. But obviously any Americans really upset with foreign and Mormon runners still eligible in their mid 20s can always just delay running in college for four years or so, and then see if that allows them to run 3:38.

I'm not disputing that Emmanuel is a great guy. It has nothing to do with the debate. Using your own argument, why doesn't Emmanuel just go pro? Should the NCAA allow Kobe and LeBron the opportunity to go back and play college basketball? As you said, why limit eligibility at all? I don't think Geb or Bekele ever used any eligibility either.

IN summary, Coach Franklin is staying within the rules. The real issue is the NCAA and it's rules. The "NEW" legislation barely addresses the real issues.

The big PROBLEM is The NCAA "Athletics Activity Waiver" Bylaw 14.2.1.4

Based on this Bylaw, anyone can say they were "training for" a major championship as long as their National Federation provides a letter to confirm this. Because of the nature of athletics in the UK (Club system), most UK athletes can get their hands on such a letter without any big deal. Not so easy for a US collegiate athlete to do.

UK athletes hide behind this rule all the time especially using the BUSA (British Universities Sports Assoc.)Championships as their out because they it is the trial for the World University Championships. I wonder how many UK athletes running at Sterling University (BUSA XC Champs) this weekend will compete next year in the NCAA because it is the TRIAL for the World University Championships. If they can do this then why can't the NCAA athletes who ran last fall's NCAA Championships and are "selected" to go to the World Univ. Champs (4/11 - Kingston, Ontario) do the same. The shit would hit the fan if every NCAA school looked to the NCAA for a waiver based on what the UK kids are doing.

Lets see who goes to Kingston for the US Team and if they are NCAA collegiate athletes, than they should be entitled to the "Athletics Activity Waiver".

Another major issue here is that UK college/university athletes can "double-dip" and get away with it. Meaning that they can run for their college/university one day and the next day run for their club team without any penalty. Here in the US, you cannot compete for a "club team" in "organized" competition during the NCAA season.

They say their college/university teams are "club" teams and therefore do not count. However, they also run for their real club teams (UK Athletics) during their college season and US collegiate athletes cannot.

Any competition (for a club or college)once you begin classes at a college/university should trigger a season of competition. End of issue.

Foreign athletes are good for the NCAA, but the playing field MUST be equal.

Stéphane Tunstal said, more or less,

"Maybe he should kill off the people who have lived in the country for 200 years and call himself an 'American.' What is it they say--stupid 'redneck'!"

I think his point is that the current Americans killed off the native inhabitants and therefore have no more claim to native status than someone like Emanuel.

If Lee was Kenyan, everyone would add an extra 4 years and say hes 29

Not sure about that Tunsal (surely someone from the UK at least has worked out who he/she is pertaining to be?), but it is a point that Emanual comes from the country that most of your ancestors came from!

On age, its always struck me how old a lot of the 'students' are in the US. In the UK a standard degree is from 18-21. They are not going to be able to put an age limit on it I guess because of mature students

Maybe he is actually trying to further his education as its not easy to get rich of running and retire off your earnings!

There are plenty of US workers/students in the UK so its tit for tat

18 against 25 might not be fair but 22/3 against 25, not much in it

i love how the argument turned to BYU guys going on missions. the difference is lee is the same as old as the oldest BYU guy, but lee competed for 2 years in the UK while the BYU guys didn't even run for 2 years for a mission. if he wasn't running in England for years before he came here, its one thing... but he basically just got 3 redshirt years to train and get to where he is a contender and then started competing.

after 6 years of straight training, anyone would be running faster. but its two different arguments, what UNM is doing and what BYU does.

i don't argue that BYU does have an age advantage, but it balances out since they dont run. UNM has an age and experience advantage.

its not like German Fernandez cares, but its still not fair. no one else COMPETES for 6 years, why do the guys at UNM?

You sound like an ex lobo that always lost to BYU runners. That's sad because all the lobos I ran against were all very classy. I must have never met you, which means you must have never really competed that much.

Of course the top competitors, the German Fernandez, Galen Rupps, aren't going to be complaining about the age discrepancy, but THERE IS ONLY ONE GERMAN FERNANDEZ, ONE GALEN RUPP.

The fact that the UK students can come over here at age 20+, HAVING COMPETED FOR THEIR OWN UNIVERSITY BACK HOME, with years of eligibility, is embarrassing. Kenyans not knowing their accurate birthday is one thing, but when a 23 year old like Emmanuel, (or the KING OF ALL BRITISH UNIVERSITY MEETS MAT ASHTON? WONDER WHERE HIS RESULTS ON POWER OF 10 WENT?), trains back at home and just decides to use the NCAA as a POST-COLLEGIATE GROUP, as someone mentioned before, then it is making a mockery of the system.

Wow Lee, real great, beating up on 18-22 year olds. Give them three years and then we'll see how competitive they are.

I agree, this is a serious issue and must be addressed, NOW. The Bylaw is being abused, not necessarily broken and herein lies the problem. It is not just an age issue and people need to stop saying it is. Pay attention to the issues. As the "The Truth" says, IT IS NOT AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD. Bylaw 14.2.1.4 needs to be cleaned up and if you compete while enrolled in a college/university, then you use up a season of eligibility. What's applies to US collegians, MUST apply to foreigh athletes/transfers.

Sorry, but rarely if ever did I lose to a cougar. Is it fair that just about everyone at byu gets 7 years to compete 4 years and everyone else gets 5 to compete 4? Missions can be taken after college. But that's not the debate. Plenty of people in collges are as old as Lee and older. The French Pole Vaulter Xavier Tromp from Clemson turns 26 in a couple of weeks. Graham Mcneil at NAU is a junior and I think he's 24. And I think Florida St has a junior decathlete, Gonzalo, that is 24.

Oh, and Lee didn't compete for 2 years after HS, and I think he didn't run at all. So It's similar to a mission in some ways.

The bottom line is, the rules are being followed at UNM so why is everyone so freaked out. I may not like the missions for byu, but they are following the rules in place right now.

The Mormon mission athletes having an advantage doesn't mean that athletes like Lee, and coaches like Joe Franklin, aren't still bending/abusing the rules.

Where was Lee after HS? Power of 10 doesn't list him from 04-05, but does have 06 times, so he must've been running then. He ran for Sheffield Univ at the BUSA (now BUCS), so that should spend one year eligibility there.

What was he up to? Mormon mission?

Sorry, but rarely if ever did I lose to a cougar. Is it fair that just about everyone at byu gets 7 years to compete 4 years

--Ok, so you must be Matt Gonzales then...regardless, BYU runners get 5 years to compete 4 years. How many times do you people have to hear that a 2 year mission is excatly that, a 2 year mission. NO training is going on.

after high school, Lee was stricken with alcoholism. His running went to crap, and his lifestyle was on a quick downward spiral. This explains the 04-05 seasons, as he was in rehab... rather than competing.

Truly a remarkable story, giving alcoholics worldwide hope for recovery.

**it should be noted that Lee tends to have relapses, mainly occurring every fall during XC season. He quickly rebounds to win an NCAA indoor title and run 3:3x outdoors.

Motivational story right thurrr.

What Joe Franklin has at his disposal: just as good facilities as most top D1 XC programs (outdoor track, their own indoor track, etc), far and away nicer environment, atmosphere, trails than places other than NAU and Colorado, one of the distance running hot spots, tons of pro athletes hanging around the foothills of Sandia Mtns

What Joe Franklin lacks: patience to build a program with his own coaching and American/New Mexico talent. Look at Fox and Cuse, took a few years of getting beat up in the NE but now a team that had 10 guys from 14:13-14:26, DEEP. Patience young grasshopper, and the same (if not BETTER) results could be yours. You don't think that Abq is nicer than the snow belt, ny??????

Either you're a coach or a just manager of talent, so which one is it?