Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 1/24

Marathon: New Jersey Shore Marathon

Goal: 2:59

Hello Everyone -

I'm back after several months without posting and just lurking. I used to post in the fall marathon training thread but got sick and decided to pull out of the NYC marathon. Later this spring, I'm planning on doing the New Jersey Shore Marathon which is on May 2nd. The goal is to break 3 hours. Let's see how it goes!

Here is last week's training:

Monday - 59:40 easy

Tuesday - 1:05:15 easy + 8 strides

Wednesday - 20:00 w/up +

6X1:00 fast/35-40 seconds recovery +

6X1:00 fast/1:30 walk recovery +

5:00 c/d

Thursday - Rest

Friday - 41:41 easy + 8 strides

Saturday - 33:15 easy + 4 strides

Sunday -

20:00 w/up +

Manhattan Half Marathon - 1:28:57 avg: 6:47 pace +

10:00 c/d

Total mileage = 44 miles

Have a good week everyone

A serious question for those running doubles. How many of you have a family? I would love to run doubles but just don't have the time to do it. I run every day at 5:30 a.m., work 50 hour weeks, and try to be at all of my kids activities. 60-65 miles a week is all I can do.

Good question. That's my limiting factor. 40 I can always fit in. 50 requires careful planning and no emergencies. 60 requires that, plus a bit of doubling (I do it with the dogs instead of their walk). I'm hoping to get in some 70s this cycle, but that's if no one get's sick, no road trips for work etc. As I get faster I can squeeze more miles out of the same time. Plus, as the kids get older they actually want to go on runs with daddy and mommy (try running with 4 yr olds). Plus, then you need to have your wife running so it doesn't ruin your marriage. I'm setting up her training plans, so I bump up her mileage a week or two before I bump up mine.

Incidentally, I typically am working in the 50+ hours/wk.

A lot of the guys/(girls?) on this thread are 1) younger and kidless, 2) running 50-60mpw if with kids so are in the same boat as you and I or 3) really fast so running 100 miles takes the same time as I spend running 60.

1996: Give up on the ol' college career when my high 15/mid 33 is fast enough to get the XC coach to let me run in B-team races, but slow enough to get me lapped repeatedly on the track. (In retrospect, I should have moved to the marathon at this point and been happy with a 2:35ish pr).

1997: Quit running.

1998-2003: Get fat, pick up a pack-a-day smoking habit.

2004: Start running again.

2005: Start training again. Quit smoking in July; run 3:07 in October.

2006: Run through a bad stress fracture AND pneumonia at Boston (3:16). First kid is born. Half-hearted training in the fall, but I give it up quickly.

2007: Move to Denver. Run maybe 35 mpw. Again, half-hearted marathon training in the fall, but it leads nowhere.

2008: A little more serious training in the fall. Still pretty slow in September and October, so I take a break. Worried that my faster days have passed me by.

2009: Start training in February. Everything feels good. 32 flat 5 mile in April at altitude; 40 flat 10k in May (also at altitude); 1:23 low HM in July at sea level. Probably in 2:52-2:53 shape in October for Chicago but bad GI problems = DNF. Not a great race in December but I still finish in 2:58:14.

We'll see what the future holds. Ideally, I'd take a couple of years to let my legs refresh, and then when the twins were 2 or so, star training again. I figure I probably have one more 2 year or so stretch at 36-37 when I could realistically run PRs, especially given that I probably only have 4 or 5 years of higher mileage on my legs in my 20s and 30s.

Ahh, our past running years. Sadly for me I'm just running for fun and to not be fat! I enjoyed my first marathon and now would like to see how fast I can go while I'm still in my prime running years (31 now).

High School: (25-30 miles per week)

800: 1:57 1600: 4:16 3200: 9:12 & 15:24 XC

College:

1500: 3:49 3k: 8:20 5k: 14:20 8k XC: 23:50 10kXC: 30:30 at D1 XC

(85-100 miles per week)

Post College: 2003-2006 roads (50-70 mph)

5k: 14:55 10k 31:15 12k: 37:05 10mile: 52:05 1/2: 1:12

Then I switched careers and got a way better job but the running took the hit. Jogged for 2+years and packed on some lbs. Started training again in July 2009. Took of about 25 lbs running 40-50 per week with a couple 70's and ran 1:17 half and 2:49:19 marathon with no "workouts". I love running and having the time to do it! This thread has been a nice motivator by seeing that other guys are out there getting it donewoK would love to go sub 2:40 in my next marathon. Sub 2:30 someday would be great. I'm just enjoying the ride.

Fascinating to read the various running backgrounds of everyone on here - thanks for posting the info.

Unlike many who seem to have come from a HS/College running background, I didn't start running until I was a post-grad (23 y.o.) and it's just been a slow steady build-up/progression over the last 17 years. Marathon history as follows:

3:54 (Cal Intl, 1995)

3:34 (Avenue of the Giants, 1996)

3:27 (Napa Valley, 1997)

3:29 (Rocket City, 1997)

3:29 (Chicago, 1998)

3:17 (Kiawah Island, 1999)

3:09 (Las Vegas, 2001 - when it used to be in Feb)

3:24 (Boston, 2001 - steady run round)

2:56 (London, 2003)

2:52 (London, 2004)

2:43 (Berlin, 2005)

2:34 (London, 2008)

2:31 (Berlin, 2009)

Bet you're all asleep by now.........never really had any speed, but 10k and 1/2M times have improved with a mid-32 10k and mid-71 half during the course of last year.

Goal race: Boston

Goal time: 2:59

I'm just coming back after two months off due to bulging disk and I am suffering, but trying to get my mileage back up. I had to pull out of NY two weeks before the race and was in shape to run 3:05 based on my half time of 1:28.

I've run 3 marathons - 1st - 3:30 (no training), 2nd- 3:20 (w a group and coach) - 3rd - 3:13 (Boston 2009 w coaching)

Monday - 6 miles and weights

Tuesday - Crosstrain (spinning)

Wednesday - 7 miles and weights

Thursday - 12 miles

Friday - off

Saturday - 9 total (6x1K repeats)

Sunday - 12

week: 46

I don't have kids, but have a crazy job and travel a lot - when I'm to full training load, I am able to fit in 2-3 double days. Usually Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. The second run of the day is an easier day and I bought a fancy treadmill in case I have to do it later in the evening, etc. But for me it's not as much fitting it in as having adequate time to recover and relax so I can keep it up.

DR: Amazing comeback after smoking a pack a day. Inspiring.

Portland: Nice resume. Very consistent thoughout your career.

Marmite: Too bad you didn't start running earlier with your talent. But then again, maybe it's helping you run well as you get older. That's a nice marathon progression. Must be very satisfying.

Bostonchick: Assuming you're a woman, nice to have another perspective here. Good luck with the disc. Riding the bike always made my disc problems worse, be careful with that. Which disc?

I am curious: No family, yet. Trying to get in a good marathon before that happens.

AJ: Thanks for the advice. I've been better at running recovery runs slow. Still not convinced or able to properly pace a race.

2TM, Pablo: Just to clarify, for McMillan what you guys are saying is, the 10K race that I plug in should be one that I do in the middle of marathon training without a taper? Not one I peak for? Thanks.

[quote]BostonBound wrote:

Bostonchick: Assuming you're a woman, nice to have another perspective here. Good luck with the disc. Riding the bike always made my disc problems worse, be careful with that. Which disc?

Yeah - i felt my back after the spinning - trying to find a good cross training alternative because I'm kind of a "one-trick pony". In terms of the no-family thing . . divorced two years ago, now 36, and just trying to do something "BIG" with my time. I want to see how fast I can get in the marathon and see what happens from there. I've only been running seriously for about 2 years. I guess you will be at Boston too. Is this your first?

sorry, bostonbound. just realized you weren't asking me about the family thing - tmi . . . hehe :)

BostonBound: I'm really impressed with your training. You are obviously very experienced - I will be keeping my eyes on your training threads for inspiration!

Marmite: Now THAT is a progression! Awesome man.

I am curious: I have a 17 month old and a 2.5 old (well, really closer to 3). I get to the office anywhere between 7:15 and 8:00 AM and leave at 6:05 PM.. so roughly 50-55 hour weeks. I have a 50 minute door-to-desk commute. My kids love their naps and sleep great (always have) so I only run on weekends when they're napping. Sucks running right after lunch (they go down at 1:00), but I have gotten used to it. Once their naps are through, running on weekends will get MUCH harder.

Here was a week during my NYC buildup (this was my peak week, but had several that were similar. Most of my weeks from here on out will look like this)...

Mon- sneak out during the day for 7-9 mile run (I have a gym and locker in my building).

Tue- AM: Get on 6:02 train, get off at 125th street Harlem at 6:27, run 10 miles til 7:40AM, end up at work where I keep clothes, at desk before 8:00. PM: sneak away for 5 mile run in the afternoon.

Wed- AM: get on 5:42 or 6:02 train, get off at 125th street Harlem and do a workout in the park. May total 10-13 miles and end up at work. At desk by 8:00

Thur- get on 5:42 train to Harlem again, medium long run of 13 miles, end at work, at desk by 8:00

Friday- Same as Tue

Sat and Sun, run during kids nap.

There are days when I have to be in the office by 7:15 or 7:30, so I skip the AM run and try and find time to go during the day. There are also days where I can't go during the day, so I go at night after putting the kids to bed at 8:00 PM. Again, that sucks running on a full stomach, but I have gotten used to it. What sucks more is knowing I need to get up and go for a run the next morning.

BostonBound wrote:

2TM, Pablo: Just to clarify, for McMillan what you guys are saying is, the 10K race that I plug in should be one that I do in the middle of marathon training without a taper? Not one I peak for? Thanks.

Well, kind of. When I ran my 5k and 10k PRs, I was training specifically for those events, not the marathon. In my case, my 5k and 10k times will be a little slower when I train for the marathon and those are the times I should use as a predictor. The way I interpret that calculator is that when you plug in a shorter distance time while training for a marathon, that is likely to be much more accurate.

I'll add my background, it may provide balance to some of the impressive resumes above. Marmite, it's pretty cool to see you move from rec runner to 2:31. Denver guy broke a pack a/day habit and is out making it happen. Well done friend.

A little about me:

High School schlub, always injured before state. 25m/wk, 2:04 800m, 4:40 1600, 10:12 3200m, 35:30 10K (I puked all day after that one). Injured senior year.

Running in college was rec stuff, a 10k here or there. Followed the sport pretty closely though and lived in Boulder which kept me motivated. Lots of cycling, hiking, stayed pretty active.

2001 first marathon, Denver - 3:23. On a whim after 9/11. No training other than a few 2hr runs. Went in to work later that afternoon and lied about why I seemed tired.

2002, Denver - 3:24. Naively thought I could improve my time on the same training program. May have broke my foot.

2003, Johnstown PA - Some training, fast first half, painful explosion, 3:23.

2009, Austin - 14 wks of ~35-45m/wk, 2:57

Punched my Boston ticket and now I'm just psyched. Up to 55m/wk, and Boston will likely be my lifetime best. The wife can't wait for this to be over although she has been impressed with what the training has done for my physique - aside from the crippling side effects and exhaustion. The cost of glory I say.

By the way, to the poster who asked about kids and doubling, etc:

I just turned 24, single (have a g/f), no kids, and work full-time (45 hrs/week as an engineer). I do my shorter runs in the morning at 5:30, unless I know it's gonna be a long day at the office. I am usually able to work from ~7:45 to ~5:15 every day...fairly consistent hours. My main run/workout is done around 6pm. I normally don't go out during the week (maybe once/week) so I can get some decent sleep. I'll usually go out one day on the weekends, but still keep running a top priority.

In my biggest weeks I'll double 5-6x per week. It's really not too difficult, but then again, I lead a life full of routine (almost OCD like) and don't stray too far from it.

I was a 23 200m, 52 400m, 2:04 800m runner in H.S. I don't think I every ran a mile track race. I sucked at XC too... I made it to the first college track practice Freshman year and quit. I decided my H.S. team was better than my college team. Looking back I regret that decision...

That was my last "run", Nov. 1990. 14 years + 50-60lbs later I took up running again. After numerous injuries the first 2 years back and an prolonged illness in '07, I feel like I'm in better shape than back in H.S. though I don't think I could run fast on the track (I ran a 2:27 800m last summer).

I have two kids (7, 4) and a job that is lenient on when I get in (9am). On double days, I just run during lunch. So for todays 15+5 double. I'm up at 510am, out the door for 15, in work by 9am. I'll head out around 1230pm for 5, then back to work and I'll stay until ~545pm. I don't take an actual lunch just eat my desk...

I'll be 38 in Boston, and hoping to keep improving for the next couple of years. I have no clue where my lower limit is timewise, but we'll see...

JewOn - as 2TM mentioned, think it depends on what you mean by tempo. If you're talking LT/Half marathon race effort, then I wouldn't do more than 10k in one session and these days favour breaking that up into "cruise intervals". But if tempo = marathon pace/effort, again as others have said, I'd go with the Pfitzinger approach of incorporating that into a long run. Personally, I like to do a couple of 20M runs during a marathon build-up, where I'll use a 1/2M race as the marathon-pace section (e.g., 4M warm-up, 13.1M @ marathon pace/effort, 3M cool-down).

DR - seriously impressed with the post-smoking come back. Good man.

BB - thanks, but I think if my times indicate anything it's that I don't have any talent at all, otherwise my time would have improved more quickly! Put the improvements down purely to stubbornness and OCD.

2TM, Another (and others doing the super-early runs) - really impressed with your level of dedication in getting out when most people are in bed sleeping.

Regarding doubles - it's just me + wife, no kids, typically double 3-4 days per week.

With respect to the smoking, it really wasn't difficult. I was already running maybe 50 mpw at the time, so after the first week of withdrawal symptoms, it was easy peasy. After a month it was hard to believe I ever smoked at all. (Though I do occasionally find a lighter in a coat I haven't worn for years.) My wife was a different story -- she tried several times but didn't completely give up until we had our daughter, and even now she jones for it sometimes.

With respect to training, I'm usually at 75-80 mpw in singles at peak. I do most of that before work (get up at 5:00, out the door by 5:45, back home by 6:45). The exceptions are interval days (either do them on Saturday morning or Friday afternoon at lunch), midweek medium-long runs (run a 12-14 mile loop that ends up at the office, so I'll be out the door at 5:45 and to the office by 7:20 or so), and the long run (weekend morning). I'll run into work (I have routes anywhere between 5 and 10 miles) if I have to be in early, but that leaves the wife to handle morning duty all by herself. I'll run at lunch when I need to sleep in, though I'm pretty much limited to 45 minutes when I do that (so I can shower and be back at my desk within an hour), so it pretty much rules out any workouts during peak training, when tempos are in the 9-10 mile range.

The only real interference with family life is the long run -- no way getting around the fact that I'll be gone for 3 hours and dead for the rest of the day after that. We try to minimize the stress of this by laying out a schedule a couple of months beforehand; my wife lets me know what weekends won't work, and I try to schedule training around them -- usually it's to take a cutback week then, though occasionally I'll have to do a long run while away. (I try to use the times when we visit family/friends at sea level to my advantage and schedule some really fast stuff.) I'll also generally let her pick whether I do the long run on Saturday or Sunday. And finally, every now and then I give her a break and run in the afternoon when the kid is napping, even though (1) I hate hate hate running after I eat and (2) it's often really hot during that time of day here.

for all you high mileage people - over 75 miles per week - are you doing yoga, massage, other PT to stay injury free? I was doing massage every other week last year, but all the extra stuff took so much time, and I slacked in the last marathon training cycle and my injury was probably due to this.