Is Tegenkamp Blood Doping?

How is it unethical?

Also, this technique isn't as exclusive as you think. I guarantee you that you or I could get it done if we wanted.

Fupa the gunt wrote:

By artificially speeding up the healing process, you are directly increasing your future level of success.

That is why the non-performance enhancing logic does not work.

No. EPO directly increases your future fitness because it increases RBC mass, no ifs or buts about it. It is like injectable altitude training. But the platelet therapy is fundamentally different in that it does not (as far as we know) directly increase future fitness. It is supposed to speed healing so that you can return to your usual training sooner. Whether your fitness increases depends on how you go about your training.

Consider if Teg's knee injury was an meniscus tear, and then he had it surgically repaired. No one would care or call it unethical. But if the surgery worked then it would definitely allow him to return to normal training sooner.

testosterone does not increase future fitness - whether your fitness increases with test supplements depends on how you go about your training.

interesting about cycling being fake - i recall a a cycling article where the author joked about his own bad performance where he said that he was "slogging uphill like an undrugged marco pantani".

Doctor shopping is a common practice for those around Salazar - case in point, Dr. Stray-Gunderson, doctor thyroid and doctor asthma.

Thugnificent wrote:

How is it unethical?

Also, this technique isn't as exclusive as you think. I guarantee you that you or I could get it done if we wanted.

I think that your interpretation of the situation is correct (that is, something I agree with). It seems, on the surface at least, that the sole purpose of the procedure is to quicken the healing of an injury.

However, I don't think that ANY procedure that aids in healing an injury automatically warrants a pass. For example, using steroids tends to promote rapid healing. Just because steroids promotes rapid healing doesn't mean it is the medical equivalent of meniscus surgery or orthotics.

The blood spinning and reinfusion technique described in this case certainly is a gray area and needs to be scrutinized and clarified as to whether it is deemed permissible or not, so as to remove any uncertainty. Obviously Tegenkamp believed the procedure was permissible, he certainly wasn't trying to conceal it.

Who cares. Solinsky in the steeple is what matters.

[quote]Thugnificent wrote:

How is it unethical?

If you have knee tendonitis you don’t need to even need to see a doctor to know what the problem is, certainly if you’re a professional athlete who has a professional coach who knows what knee tendonitis is. No matter how you treat it the inflammation will not heal unless you take time off, I just missed 8 weeks with the same injury. If some one came along and told me they could give me a quick fix by injecting my own blood back into the injured knee I would say no because its clearly unethical and also I am smart enough to know that the problem wont be resolved with out rest. Call up your local knee specialist and ask if you can get in for a quick session of blood spinning, and he won’t know what you’re talking about. It’s unethical because he’s willing to go to extreme measure of treatment to avoid missing a day of training and having to adjust his plans like everyone else who has had knee tendonitis. I am sure his coach has never had an athlete spin his blood and he has been coaching along time. They’re trying to find specialists who are advanced and are willing to do anything to say they help one of our best runners. That’s the problem these doctors have no ethics and they convince the coach and athlete that it will fix the problem. Looks like it didn’t because the article states he has missed training. They will keep going and going until they find someone who says I can do this treatment that no one knows about and you will be the first one with this injury who didn’t miss a run. Highly unethical.

Typical Ignoramus wrote:

you are a dumba$$, anti-inflammatory drugs do not aid in healing, they aid in reducing inflammation!

gGGG wrote:

maybe we should not allow athletes to take ibuprofen, or other anti-inflammatory drugs, because these can aid in healing. which makes them performance enhancers, right?

something tells me that, for some injuries, reducing inflammation does in fact speed recovery. so yes, ignoramus, they can aid in healing.

Doctor Shopper wrote:

Doctor shopping is a common practice for those around Salazar - case in point, Dr. Stray-Gunderson, doctor thyroid and doctor asthma.

Actually Dr. Stray-Gunderson is one of the worlds experts on EPO. Funny how Alberto's name always pops around people like Vicotor Conte and Stray-Gunderson. Oh, that's just a coincidence!

It's isn't fair... Wow, you sound like a huge complainer. Everyone has different advantages. Like I have the advantage in life of not being you, but nothing about that is unethical or illegal. I just have a different and far better set of cards than you. I have great health insurance which affords me cheap medical care when I'm injured. Some schools have more money for their programs which allows them full access to trainers and care, while some do not. Everyone's circumstances are different but just because someone's are better doesn't make it unethical if they take advantage of it. In addition nothing he has done is illegal or unethical. He's only taking advantage of the opportunities afforded to him because he worked hard and was successful for a long time.

hobie dobie wrote:

...It's his fault for getting injured, and what he is doing is definitely more unethical than not.

...

Is it fair, not necessarily.

Legal, sure.

....

Listen dufus, anti-inflammatory agents create an environment where the body can heal itself, which is not that same as removing blood, preparing it and re-injecting it back into the body such that growth factors are enhanced.

hey you there woot wrote:

Typical Ignoramus wrote:

you are a dumba$$, anti-inflammatory drugs do not aid in healing, they aid in reducing inflammation!

something tells me that, for some injuries, reducing inflammation does in fact speed recovery. so yes, ignoramus, they can aid in healing.

page 2 boy wrote:

Listen dufus, anti-inflammatory agents create an environment where the body can heal itself, which is not that same as removing blood, preparing it and re-injecting it back into the body such that growth factors are enhanced.

I don't think you understand how either works.

Listen dufus, that was exactly my argument. I was saying that, like the whole platelets issue, anti-inflammatory drugs allow the body to heal at a faster rate. Both would allow an athlete to heal at a faster rate, and help recover from injuries. The fact that they facilitate recovery in different ways is irrelevant to the point I was making: Both are unnatural ways of speeding recovery (in that ibuprofen is a drug, and taking blood out-spinning it-injecting platelets-is not natural either).

page 2 boy wrote:

Listen dufus, anti-inflammatory agents create an environment where the body can heal itself, which is not that same as removing blood, preparing it and re-injecting it back into the body such that growth factors are enhanced.

hey you there woot wrote:

something tells me that, for some injuries, reducing inflammation does in fact speed recovery. so yes, ignoramus, they can aid in healing.

testosterone treatment wrote:

testosterone does not increase future fitness - whether your fitness increases with test supplements depends on how you go about your training.

My previous comments were about EPO vs. platelet therapy, in part because the OP was about this being similar to 'blood doping', but if you want to get into why testosterone is different from platelet therapy that's fine by me. For one testosterone provides systemic benefits and does not address any particular injury, whereas the platelet therapy is supposed to treat an existing injury in a local area. This is why I am comparing it to surgery. The stim analogy is a good one too.

no dingus - one >>>allows>>forces<<< growth. it is obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

applying your logic and lack of understanding then steroids are no different than anti-inflammatory agents.

I was there wrote:

The ignorance of posters on this board is truly appalling. No wonder these, I'll call them boys - not men, have probems getting dates (with women) socializing with others and generally finding a happy, well-adjusted place in life. Even those few who find wives apparently turn the spouse off after marriage. It is a well known fact that wives crave, and don't say no, to a real man. Yet many of these little effiminates here are whining that their wives reject them. Be a man instead of a whiny little bitch and you will be surprised how you grow in stature in the eyes of women. Religions preach that got made women and men, not women and whiny little bitches.

Is Teg doping? No. Is what he is doing legal? Yes. Is this standard, medically accepted injury rehab? Yes. End of discussion.

Thanks for ending the discussion with your brilliant logic. By the way who is "got"? Is he anything like God?

There are countless numbers of injured people on this board, and not ONE time has anyone mentioned receiving this "Standard, medically accepted injury rehab procedure" - except for the guy who said the following:

What, no rebuttal to this? No one here has received this standard medically accepted injury rehab? C'mon - it is standard treatment right?

runsaul wrote:

Growth factor in his body? It's going directly to the source of the injury not completely into his body.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

The source of his injury is not in his body?

Is localized drugging okay but only systematic drugging banned? Because that's what your logic leads you to.

Regardless of whether you consider what he's doing to be drugging, it's hard to argue with the logic of what Mr. Obvious says.

I will say that Teg's willingness to talk about this should be taken as evidence that he does not believe that it is cheating. Clearly, he's been told that it is all above board. Now that he has gone public with the details of the treatment, WADA needs to make a definitive statement about whether the practice is legal and whether it will continue to be. I have no doubt that Teg will abide by their ruling -- although I'm sure plenty of others would not give it up until/unless it can be detected.