NikeNationals V Footlocker

Shorter Than Frank wrote:

does anyone know if winners of nxn goes on to the footlocker nationals...are they the same weekend. if i recall correctly, this is something that was done in the past.

I believe it lasted two years (04-05?) where the top two individuals from each NTN region went on to FLN, and only 8 went from each Footlocker region. That was back when Nike was a partner to the Footlocker meet. Now that they've parted ways, Nike has basically said to any top-tier individual in certain regions who has a good team, "sorry, but unless you want to abandon your teammates you have to pass up the biggest meet of your high school career"

NXN is great for every other person in the meet besides the athletes (probably 10 or so) who had a legitimate chance at going to FLN and had to pass it up out of loyalty to their teammates.

Most of the legit runners who run NXN and/or Footlocker go on to compete in college. I think that running NXN for them with a team will get them ready for those big meets at the NCAA level.

B. Dylan wrote:

Do you bother to read?

It is irrelevant to my point whether or not there is an individual champion in cross country. Individual are allowed to run at nationals and states because their team didn't qualify. My problem with footlocker is not that individuals are competing. My problem is that individuals are competing outside the context of a team race which is--except for the very last races of the season--the entire space in which the sport exists. Thus, it is analogous to a dunk (or one-on-one) contest.

For that matter, every basketball game that I have ever watched has selected a "most valuable player" to recognize one individual over the rest.

I didn't read the whole thread, but B. Dylan, your analogy is terrible. A race shows you how individuals stack up against each other. The team results are based completely on a compilation of individual achievements, and so you can completely separate each individuals performance and judge it independently of the performances of his teammates. You can't do this in basketball because individual performance is inextricably tied to team performance. Your analogy would work if a basketball game was based entirely on averaged dunking ability or something retarded like that. Then an individual dunk contest consisting of only the best individuals would be to a normal basketball game what footlocker is to a normal xc meet.

But if you're still hung up on the fact that there are no teams in footlocker, you compete for your regional team.

I believe this is wrong. They started sending two per region because the FL West regional fell on the same day as NTN. Then they decided that instead of sending top 2 from each region from the NTN (didn't really produce 2 that should have qualified) they changed it to 10 from each FL regional except the west in which they sent the original count (8) plus the 2 highest finishers from NXN. I believe they will still be doing this? They did it last year, but not sure now that they added the individuals this year. It really has nothing to do with Nike and Footlocker partnership/animosity. People keep trying to hype that, but it is what it is. Nike is giving the people what they have always wanted - a high school team championship. They are of course still working out the kinks, but they are recognizing the scheduling problems it has and are now creating a "true" national championship that everybody has asked for - relatively following the NCAA format for the most part.

As long as FL is in San Diego and NXN is in Oregon, I know which one most people will want to attend in any December.

Isn't every team sport a compilation of individual achievements? Otherwise, they wouldn't be team sports. Moreover, don't we almost always analyze individual achievements in the context of team sports?

And, for the third time, my problem is not that Footlocker contests for an indivudal title. My issue is that they contest only for the an individual title under the pretense that it is a national championship.

I think your hung up too much on the word "dunk." I merely meant to imply an individual contest (call it one-on-one or a free throw contest). Basketball is based entirely on the ability of an individual to put a ball through a basket.

Are you serious? Did you run XC in High School? How would feel if the top 7 individuals from each region in your state became the team that competed for the state championship? It might be interesting but it would dramatically change the sport of XC.

The point remains: XC is a team sport. Footlocker is an individual championship. That has never made sense.

Running is a true individual sport and thats what makes it so great. There is not single part of the sport that makes it a team sport until you add up 7 individual places/scores and that is only done to determine who had the 7 fastest runners. Sure you can make agruements all day about the "team" pushing each other or camaraderie, but the bottom line no one in the group does anything to influence the other. NXN and Footlocker are just different. Highschool XC-teams go to NXN and the fastest & strongest Highschool runners go to Footlocker. Pretty simple.

You can't possibly mean what you say here so I will assume you mean something other than "running." The sport of "running" is comprised of many events including cross country. Some of these--such as the 400 relay or 7-man cross country--are team events. Others are not.

Every team sport that I can think of is scored by the points of an individual which are scored for the the team he plays for.

I can think of any number of teams and situations that would erode your premise. In fact, international races (which I would concede are individual events) often contain "team" tactics by which certain countries box in other runners. The best cross country teams that I have seen are, without a doubt, teams.

And once upon a time, the dinosaurs walked the earth but they were too big and clunky so they died off. Oh, the times they are a changing. More and more fast runners are headed to NXN this and the trend will continue b/c (and I hate to admit this) NXN is just a better meet since it combines both individuals and teams. As I said so many posts ago, the best runners will choose NXN over Footlocker in less than five years.

No team in Running wrote:

There is not single part of the sport that makes it a team sport until you add up 7 individual places/scores and that is only done to determine who had the 7 fastest runners.

You're new to this, aren't you?

B. Dylan, should Nike Outdoor Nationals or Junior Nationals not be permitted to call themselves national meets since they are individual championships in a team sport?

If you don't see the fundamental difference between cross-country as a team sport and football as a team sport then, quite frankly, you're an idiot.