I'm a high school runner of the mid 90's and I've just started to coach high school cross country. Is Footlocker still the end all when it comes to the best individuals in the country or is this new fangled Nike Nationals taking over? And USATF is still a joke, right?
the individual race at NXN is for PUSSIES!
what a joke!
team races, well, that is a different story
end of story
That list should help you out. Most of the undecided chose NXN except for Chris Schwartz. I suspect a lot of the top guys at footlocker regionals who were unranked will make appearances on that list if there's an update this week.
Zack Torres chose footlocker too.
The top 5 guys in the Southeast NXN race would have had a good shot at FLS. Top 5 were 15:11-15:16 on a course that is significantly slower (and closer to an actual 5K) than FLS.
That said, if I were a top individual, I would go to FL. I've been to NTN as a team coach, though, and that's just killer.
The times are changing.
Footlocker is still the pre-eminent meet for individuals but high school cross country is and will always be a team sport. Crowning an individual as the "national champion" would be the equivalent to holding a dunk contest to determine a national champion in basketball. So, NXN is the true national championship. For at least a few years, Footlocker will likely keep its stranglehold on the top individuals but as more and more of them choose NXN over FL, the times will change.
I predict that in the next five years, the fastest individual in the nation (girl or boy) will opt for NXN over FL. After that, the tide will turn.
A dunk contest? that is a horrible analogy...... You can not win an individual title in basketball. In Cross Country there is still an individual champion.
If Nike wants it bad enough, then it will be done. I give Footlocker about 3 more years. If the top kids don't come Nike way, then they will up the ante. Just wait and see.
It doesn't matter if it makes sense for Nike from a business sense. Just ask the city of Sacramento. Nike wanted the Olympic trials and they paid the right people and gave jobs to the right people to assure that it happened. Nike will buy the high school championships as well.
The funny part about all of it is YOU WILL LIKE IT. At the end of the day people loved the trials being in Eugene. There are many that will even go so far as to say that "Nike is good for the sport". Be damned with ethics.
What the Swoosh wants, the Swoosh gets.
It also doesn't help matters when high level Foot Locker execs show up in San Diego (when Nike was a partner) wearing other brands of shoes, and one of Foot Locker's sports marketing execs starts berating Nike personnel in an unprofessional manner.
Foot Locker will be irrelevant in a few years, unless their top level folks pull their craniums out of their anal passages.
Anyone who was at Footlocker Nationals and heard the Jonestown Pre Kool-Aid speech knows Footlocker only has a couple years left.
????>> wrote:
A dunk contest? that is a horrible analogy...... You can not win an individual title in basketball. In Cross Country there is still an individual champion.
Actually, it really isn't. One can win an individual award in a team competition. Every "individual" champion in cross country competes as part of a team for almost the entire season (if not the entire season). The individual champion is still crowned in the midst of a team event.
At Footlocker, there isn't the faintest hint of anything to do with "team." This is simply the best individuals competing against one another. It is a track race run over hill and dale. I don't really have a problem with that notion. I have a problem divorcing the individual component completely from the team aspect. That is what makes it like a dunk contest.
I am by no means a Nike loyalist either.
B. Dylan wrote:
[quote]????>> wrote:
A dunk contest? that is a horrible analogy...... You can not win an individual title in basketball. In Cross Country there is still an individual champion.
Actually, it really isn't.
quote]
Yeah that is a TERRIBLE comparison. There is not individual champion in a basketball game, there is at the end of every XC race ever run.
Will we learn more from a Team Cross Country Championship than we do from individual championship?
Its like the college football playoff. To be fair you would need 10 conferences of twelve teams to insure competetive integrity. In Cross, all states should conclude their state meets on the same weekend, then there would be an equal(common) amount of time until the next round (the team qualifier)...Actually, as I re-read this, it has nothing to do with fairness. It is pure unmitigated greed. Its a commercial for both companies; neither could give two shits about the athletes or their families. Kinney/Footlocker came up with a great and appropriate idea; Nike will hijack it and pervert it. God bless America.
EZ10Miler wrote:
Yeah that is a TERRIBLE comparison. There is not individual champion in a basketball game, there is at the end of every XC race ever run.
Do you bother to read?
It is irrelevant to my point whether or not there is an individual champion in cross country. Individual are allowed to run at nationals and states because their team didn't qualify. My problem with footlocker is not that individuals are competing. My problem is that individuals are competing outside the context of a team race which is--except for the very last races of the season--the entire space in which the sport exists. Thus, it is analogous to a dunk (or one-on-one) contest.
For that matter, every basketball game that I have ever watched has selected a "most valuable player" to recognize one individual over the rest.
My Nike shoe says made in Tawain, Footlocker was made in America.
Look you dumb asses......no cares about the team title!....didn't you watch the NCAA Div I XC championship on TV, Internet, or Utube?......31 minutes of coverage for the top 2 individuals....and maybe 2 minutes for the teams.....it is same in any championship race....nobody cares about the feaking teams!....DEEP DEEP DOWN...that is just the way it is!
You need to lay off the caffeine a little. No need to call us names, or treat us like your kids and wife.
For middle school runners and younger, the USATF championships are the most competitive. The AAU youth meets have top runners equivalent to the USATF youth meets, but they don't have the depth of runners. No top high schoolers ever enter the USATF meet.
In high school it is all Footlocker for top Individual runners and all NXN for top teams. But that is about to change. This year 5 of the top 15 HS girl runners are doing NXN (but not the top-3 of Hasay, Brasovan & Kroeger -- probably because these 3 are all prior year FL winners).
In a year or two more top individual runners will enter NXN than FL. After that things will quickly snowball in Nike's favor.
5 years ago Nike took control of the HS Outdoor Championships away from Adidas. Nike will soon dominate the indoor championships as well. The National Scholastic HS Indoor Championship is run by USATF's NY Metropolitan Association and it will soon die. What has prevented this from happening over the last 6 years is that the NY Metro HS Champ was held on a very fast banked track at the NYC Armory, while the Nike HS Indoor Champ. meet was held on a slow un-banked track in Maryland. Top HS sprinters much preferred the faster Armory track. But this year, Nike has finally moved its championship to a fast banked track at Reggie Lewis Arena in Boston. Boston is also a big running/track town.
FYI, last year the NY Metro Assoc. was so broke that it didn't/couldn't pay the NYC Armory for using it facilities for the HS Indoor Championship. This year the Armory itself is going to collect admission fees at the door to be sure it gets paid. USATF's NY Metro Assoc. is having management problems as is USATF itself. Don't be surprised if the NY Metro HS Indoor Champ meet dies out, or at least is no longer competitive with the Nike Indoor HS Chmp (NIC) in as little as 2 years from now.
With Nike hosting both the indoor and outdoor HS track championships, and wanting to take over the Footlocker Championship as well, what is going to stop them? Nike's financial resources are over 100X those of Footlocker's. Nike is better organized and will out spend Footlocker by whatever it takes to offer a much better experience for both the runners and their parents. By starting with 9 regions (including the CA State Chmp), Nike has made it much easier and less expensive for parents to send their kids to the regional meets. Footlocker, with its 4 widely disbursed region championship sites, can cost many parents more than they would like to spend. I don’t know if there are any differences in what FL and NXN are willing to pay for travel expenses for a parent chaperone. If Nike offers to pay parent expenses and FL can’t afford to, that will be the end of FL..
If I was coaching a top HS runner, I'd encourage that runner to go to the NXN this year, unless he/she had a good chance of placing on the top-5 at FL. NXN or NIC may not yet be as prestigious as Footlocker and NY's Nat HS Indoor Scholastic Chmp., but several years from now few will remember either Footlocker or the Nat HS Sch. Chmp. Meet. Today almost no one remembers the Kinney championships of years past.
I'm not a Nike fan, but they usually do a very good job at producing the HS champ meets and also at pro meets they own. Footlocker officials have had difficulty laying out a correct course length a Van Cortlandt park and they don't appear open to suggestions how to change and improve things. Perhaps with the possibility of being put out of business, Footlocker might finally wake and run better meets. But I didn’t see any effort to hold a better meet at Van Cortlandt Park this year. First, FL needs to replace some of the old folks running their meets who are not at all comfortable making needed changes. FL meets are run by retired old folks while NXN meets are run by young 20 and 30 year olds. Which meet do you think the kids are going to like the best?
One final note: FL is run on a not too hilly golf course, in warm 70 degree weather. NXN is run is rainy Portland over what usually turns out be a very muddy course with lots of obstacles. The NXN race is much more fun to watch, but it favors stronger runners.
You have the basic facts correct and I agree with the general tone of your post. But, a few clarifications:
--the only meet that Nike actually owns is NXN. Nike Indoor and Outdoor are owned by the National Scholastic people who do know how to put on a meet. Nike hires people (including NSSF) to run their regionals and their national meets.
--Adidas pulled out of the outdoor meet. Nike saw an opportunity and capitalized. I have heard rumors that Adidas' relationship with NSSF was frosty at best.
--I have also heard that the meet was moved to Boston because of money not for a fast track. I think the meet will get smaller not larger because Maryland was within 8 hours of damn near half the US population. It might kill NSIC but the meet in general will be smaller.
--I agree that Nike is a corporation that usually gets what it wants. Don't confuse them with NSSF (or anyone else) who simply puts on great meets for high school kids.
In Texas:
Boys
*4 out of the top 6 5A finishers at the Texas State Meet are only running NXN--- including the state champion; whom ran a ridiculous 14:47 5K on a legit course (Fastest besides Scott Macpherson's questionable 14:34...). Second place was 14:59; CJ Brown, a FLNats finalist was 5th in 15:13.
*1 is running both, NXN and FLNats (CJ Brown, 3rd FLSouth)
*1 is injured
*The 9th place state finisher (5A) placed 9th at FLSouth
*The 13th place state finisher (5A) placed 10th at FLSouth
Girls
*The 1st place and 2nd place finishers TX State 5A) are running only NXN (2nd and 3rd)
*(The 4th and 5th place finishers (TX State 5A) are running both NXN and FLNats (4th/5th NXN---6th/9th FLSouth)
*Chelsey (competes in the private school division I believe?) is doubling (1st NXN/3rd FLSouth)
*7th Place finisher (TX State 5A), is running only FLNats (5th)
So NXN is definetely taking a lot of the talent. I'm sure there's a lot of teams seeing this.