I believe Mark Nenow did that in 1985...our best today just barely surpassing it. So many improvements in every aspect but yet we are not really bettering it Most of the American distance records in last 25 years unimproved. Are not the distance runners from generation ago far superior to the ones today?
They were for the most part way tougher. Trained harder (Salazar, Nenow, and the bunch would log 140 mile weeks routinely and now we scold McDougal for doing 130s...).
However Galen Rupp will destroy the AR in the 10000m over the course of his career.
Would be huge surprise if Rupp does not run around 26:45 but so few other runners approaching 27:00. The really great american runners should be approaching and surpassing the times of generation ago.
Shotgun effect.
Aunt Judy wrote:
I believe Mark Nenow did that in 1985...our best today just barely surpassing it. So many improvements in every aspect but yet we are not really bettering it Most of the American distance records in last 25 years unimproved. Are not the distance runners from generation ago far superior to the ones today?
What improvements? Really? Aside from drugs, what has so drastically changed over the past 23 years that makes it so much easier than 1985? Shoes? No. Track surfaces? No. Human physiology? No. Nutrition? No.
Goober wrote:
They were for the most part way tougher. Trained harder (Salazar, Nenow, and the bunch would log 140 mile weeks routinely and now we scold McDougal for doing 130s...).
However Galen Rupp will destroy the AR in the 10000m over the course of his career.
I wouldn't say they were tougher. Just because you run more does not mean you are tougher. You gotta make sure that you stay injury free, and many people get injured for doing too much. So people probably train smarter than before. Even Salazar knows this now. I remember reading an interview with him and he believes running more than about 100 mpw just adds extra stress on the body without adding any conditioning because it takes too much out of the body.
If no improvements - then must be drugs - all other records feel I believe except for select few - Michael Carter hs shot put, Roy Martin 200 m. and few others
Tracks are significantly faster than they were in the 80's. I'm pretty sure Chevron and Tartan were all they had back then. Mondo is a much faster surface. Spikes are also faster with better traction on the spike plates.
Tasteless wrote:
What improvements? Really? Aside from drugs, what has so drastically changed over the past 23 years that makes it so much easier than 1985? Shoes? No. Track surfaces? No. Human physiology? No. Nutrition? No.
I have no problem saying tougher. Nenow said he never ran over 6:00 mile pace for his 140 mile weeks and alot of it was considerably faster than that. Sure Salazar eventually broke down and burned out, but it is no guarentee that had he taken a more conservative approach he would have been able to reach the times he managed both on the track and roads. Its not easy to run all your mileage at a pace faster than modern wisdom tells us is a "recoverable" pace. Its also definately tough for people to throw caution aside and redline on overtraining for years just to give themselves a chance to find their potential when they could just as easily develop chronic injuries or fatigue. Just my thoughts though.
TommyB wrote:
Goober wrote:They were for the most part way tougher. Trained harder (Salazar, Nenow, and the bunch would log 140 mile weeks routinely and now we scold McDougal for doing 130s...).
However Galen Rupp will destroy the AR in the 10000m over the course of his career.
I wouldn't say they were tougher. Just because you run more does not mean you are tougher. You gotta make sure that you stay injury free, and many people get injured for doing too much. So people probably train smarter than before. Even Salazar knows this now. I remember reading an interview with him and he believes running more than about 100 mpw just adds extra stress on the body without adding any conditioning because it takes too much out of the body.
Nenow ran 27:20 in 1986, not '85.
Rupp ran 13:37 for 5000 meters in 2004 and has improved all the way to 13:30.
IMO, he will end his career with a 10,000 m PB closer to his current PB of 27:33 than to 27:00.
Cannot fathom Rupp running 2X5000 back to back faster than his current best.
It will be a huge suprise if Galen runs 26:45. In the previous 4 years he has taken 7 secs off his 5k pr. He needs to take another 30 to be thinking about a 26:45. His 10k is a bit better than his 5k but it isn't like he has some incredible time (3:55 mile, sub 7:40 3k) suggesting he is about to drop a 13:10. I think it is more likely he drops a 2.06 before a 26:45.
Aunt Judy wrote:
Would be huge surprise if Rupp does not run around 26:45 but so few other runners approaching 27:00. The really great american runners should be approaching and surpassing the times of generation ago.
Aunt Judy wrote:
Would be huge surprise if Rupp does not run around 26:45 .
Hyperbole much? In no way, shape, or form would it be "a huge surprise if Rupp does not run around 26:45." Only one non-african in history has ever broken 27:10, and now you will be shocked if he doesn't beat that barrier by 25 seconds, and the american-born record (that has stood for nearly a quarter century) by 35 seconds??? Ok, sure, whatever you say.
(if he runs under 27:10, he should be very happy, and yes, he has a shot at 27:00. A "shot" is a lot different than an absolute sure-thing like you seem to think)
Tasteless wrote:
What improvements? Really? Aside from drugs, what has so drastically changed over the past 23 years that makes it so much easier than 1985? Shoes? No. Track surfaces? No. Human physiology? No. Nutrition? No.
1. Ipods are much lighter than walkmans were.
2. Subway can now toast sandwiches.
3. Soda switched from sugar to corn syrup.
4. Nike shocks have springs in them.
5. Stopwatches can tell you how fast your heart beats.
6. We found out women won't die if they break a sweat.
7. Lays potato chips have 0g. trans fat.
8. People say "run forest run" when they see you work out, as opposed to whatever they used to say.
9. You can carry your water on a utility belt like batman.
10. Facebook.
Aunt Judy wrote:
Most of the American distance records in last 25 years unimproved. Are not the distance runners from generation ago far superior to the ones today?
among the men, the mile, the two mile, the steeple, the 5000m, the 10000m, the half marathon, and the marathon records were all set in the last ten years or so. the mile, the two mile, and the steeple records were all set in the past couple of years.
"Shoes? No. Track surfaces? No. Human physiology? No. Nutrition? No.'
shoes? yes, definetly. track surfaces? yes, without a doubt. human physiology? no. understanding of human physiology? yes, night and day. nutrition? bigtime yes.
I trained daily with Bickford in the mis 80's. I believe he was ranked #1 in the world at one time and ran about 27:13. Every day hard. Bruce Denton had nothing on him. 100-120 mpw at 6:00 or better no let up.
Who is the only non african to run 27:10????
Perhaps you'd be kind enough to enlighten me what specific advances in physiology have been made in the past 23 years that help develop elite distance runners. I'd kind of be interested since I'd like to know just how far behind the state of art I am.
Senor Barrios.
(and note that the "BELgian" is really a transplanted Morrocan.)
Result Name Country Venue Date
1. 26:17.53 Kenenisa Bekele ETH Bruxelles 2005-08-26
2. 26:22.75 Haile Gebrselassie ETH Hengelo 1998-06-01
3. 26:27.85 Paul Tergat KEN Bruxelles 1997-08-22
4. 26:30.03 Nicholas Kemboi KEN Bruxelles 2003-09-05
5. 26:30.74 Abebe Dinkesa Negera ETH Hengelo 2005-05-29
6. 26:35.63 Micah Kogo KEN Bruxelles 2006-08-25
7. 26:36.26 Paul Koech KEN Bruxelles 1997-08-22
8. 26:37.25 Zersenay Tadese ERI Bruxelles 2006-08-25
9. 26:38.08 Salah Hissou MAR Bruxelles 1996-08-23
10. 26:38.76 Abdullah Ahmad Hassan QAT Bruxelles 2003-09-05
11. 26:39.69 Sileshi Sihine ETH Hengelo 2004-05-31
12. 26:39.77 Boniface Kiprop UGA Bruxelles 2005-08-26
13. 26:41.75 Samuel Wanjiru KEN Bruxelles 2005-08-26
14. 26:49.02 Eliud Kipchoge KEN Hengelo 2007-05-26
15. 26:49.20 Moses Masai KEN Bruxelles 2007-09-14
16. 26:49.38 Sammy Kipketer KEN Bruxelles 2002-08-30
17. 26:49.55 Moses Mosop KEN Hengelo 2007-05-26
18. 26:49.90 Assefa Mezgebu ETH Bruxelles 2002-08-30
19. 26:50.20 Richard Limo KEN Bruxelles 2002-08-30
20. 26:50.67 Albert Chepkurui KEN Bruxelles 2002-08-30
21. 26:51.49 Charles Kamathi KEN Bruxelles 1999-09-03
22. 26:52.23 William Sigei KEN Oslo 1994-07-22
23. 26:52.30 Mohammed Mourhit BEL Bruxelles 1999-09-03
24. 26:52.33 Gebre-egziabher Gebremariam ETH Hengelo 2007-05-26
25. 26:52.87 John Cheruiyot Korir KEN Bruxelles 2002-08-30
26. 26:52.93 Mark Bett KEN Bruxelles 2005-08-26
27. 26:57.08 Leonard Komon KEN Hengelo 2008-05-24
28. 26:58.38 Yobes Ondieki KEN Oslo 1993-07-10
29. 26:59.51 Bernard Kiprop Kipyego KEN Bruxelles 2007-09-14
30. 27:02.62 Abderrahim Goumri MAR Hengelo 2005-05-29
Deriba Merga Ejigu ETH Hengelo 2007-05-26
32. 27:02.81 Ibrahim Jeylan ETH Bruxelles 2006-08-25
33. 27:04.18 Robert Sigei Kipngetich KEN Neerpelt 2007-06-02
34. 27:04.20 Abraham Chebii KEN Palo Alto 2001-05-04
35. 27:04.54 Felix Limo KEN Bruxelles 2000-08-25
36. 27:04.61 Josphat Kiprono Menjo KEN Neerpelt 2007-06-02
37. 27:04.79 Josphat Muchiri Ndambiri KEN Oita 2006-09-30
38. 27:04.89 Tadesse Tola ETH Neerpelt 2007-06-02
39. 27:04.92 Mohamed Ali Abdosh ETH Hengelo 2007-05-26
40. 27:05.88 Patrick Ivuti KEN Bruxelles 2002-08-30
41. 27:06.16 Kidane Tadesse ERI Neerpelt 2008-05-31
42. 27:06.17 John Yuda TAN Bruxelles 2002-08-30
43. 27:06.44 Worku Bikila ETH Bruxelles 1995-08-25
44. 27:06.45 Habte Jifar ETH Hengelo 1999-05-30
45. 27:06.47 Habtamu Fedaku Ashaw ETH Hengelo 2007-05-26
46. 27:06.59 Ismael Kirui KEN Bruxelles 1995-08-25
47. 27:07.55 Benjamin Maiyo KEN Palo Alto 2001-05-04
48. 27:07.91 Richard Chelimo KEN Stockholm 1993-07-05
49. 27:08.06 Bernard Kisulu Musyoka KEN Bruxelles 2008-09-05
50. 27:08.23 Arturo Barrios MEX Berlin 1989-08-18
ex-stasi wrote:
Nenow ran 27:20 in 1986, not '85.
Rupp ran 13:37 for 5000 meters in 2004 and has improved all the way to 13:30.
IMO, he will end his career with a 10,000 m PB closer to his current PB of 27:33 than to 27:00.
Cannot fathom Rupp running 2X5000 back to back faster than his current best.
Rupp's 10k and 5k PBs are misleading. They were both very championship style races. The kid is significantly more able than 13:30 and 27:33 TODAY.