This is actually a good question that I ask myself a lot. Prior to this past summer I was the same as Symmonds and Borza, sit and kick. The only problem was that sometimes I left too much and had huge kicks at the end. My best race my splits were (26,29,30,28). My tactic by the end of summer was to go out hard for 400m, go easy for 200m and then kick as hard as I could last 200m.
I think Arthur Lydiard did it with Snell & co. with that half mile downhill section on the famous hill circuit training, and perhaps Peter Coe adapted this unknowingly when he marked out Rivelin Valley Road for Seb.
Speed is just two things...stride length and turnover. Pushing power off the ground and carriage strength to put one foot in front of the other. Drills and plyos basically should be focused on carriage strength and less on pushing power in my book. Also, we come back to some slight downhill intervals to focus on turnover while distressed. Could be some creative coaching technique in here somewhere.
I highly doubt that Lasse did any of this kind of "three times a week" sort of work. Lasse´s training was focused to training by 5 different intensities and he or his coach didn´t use a one week or 7-day etc. microcycle. HE LISTENED HIS BODY. And through all "phases" he had those basic training tools included, only changing training focus a little bit when it was time to do so.
I've read that Lasse Viren did downhill repeats like 600m on a slope in the forest. I think Viren used to do around 6 times 600m downhill 3 times a week during his strength phase
Yes, I think this is key-it is so easy to get injured that this form of training is not useful until all of the other forms of training have been almost fully maximized-base work, strength training, UPhill training, pylometrics, intervals, sprints. I can't really think of a better way to get injured then running fast downhill multiple times, but the benefits of leg speed and relaxation would be undeniable. Plus I would think that would would get better at it the more you practice it, and if you can survive those then running on flat ground must seem much easier on the legs. Large risk, but large reward.
For 800m runners this could work well too, alternating uphill with downhill repeats. But apply with discretion.
northwest master wrote:
Just wanted to say that this has been one of my favorite threads this year. I used to run 1:48.71 twenty years ago and 1:52 as a Master's competitor a couple years back. The 800m was always one of the funnest races to run. Being a miler, I relied on just powering out from the start, throw in a surge right after 300m when everyone was relaxing and another with 250m to go. It hurt like hell at the end, but it put you in position (if you were having a good day) to run a very fast time.
Anyways ~ good reading.
My freshman year in college I ran a 600mm indoors (rolling start) and ran 1:19...I ended up running 1:50.8 from the gun. Generally through college when i was NOT developing my strength I would run 600m in 1:18-1:19 and consistantly run 1:49. I think you need to add 29-32 seconds to a rolling start to have a prediction. The differential is completely dependent on your saerobic power (obviously you are fast enough to get to 600m in 1:21!). All you need to do is put a 29 200m at the end for a 1:50 800m which is national class collegiately...obviously a 29 200m isnt speed training!! -- you are right, work on your strength 75-80% of the time. Try to run 1:52 or better this year.
Rising halfer wrote:
OS4, what would you predict my indoor 800 to be off of a 1:21 600 tt indoor?
Very interesting read, its further proved that I need to increase my mileage if I really desire to become an international competitor in the future.
Well I'll be damned! 39 pages later and this thread is still pumping! Glad to see people still supplying info to this thread! As I get closer to my indoor season, as an 800/1500 guy -- What's the general idea for a good indoor season. Here's a 2 week outline from my past 2 weeks: Please do share w/ me if you have any suggestions, however this training is particularly mirrored towards the training done in the past at the U of O :
Monday pm. GYM DAY (22nd) 6x400 hills (8% incline) up-hill repeats (e,m,h – 6:40pace,6:20pace,6:00 pace) then progressive build each mile from 6:20-5:30 (5 miles)
Tuesday a.m. 4miles
P.m.6 miles progressive (6:45-5:45)
Wednesday pm 6-7 miles --- Weightlift/CORE
Thursday a.m. 3 miles on track (15:48 – 79/400m)
p.m. 6 miles Progressive (6:45-5:45)
Friday pm. Easy miles/bike
Saturday : 6x800 Progressive w/2 min jogs (2:26,2:24,2:22,2:20,2:17,2:14) + 300(48),200(30),100(13-14) – Jog half distance for recovery
Sunday : 10mile Run Easy
Monday pm. 7 miles easy
Tuesday am. 4 miles
P.m 6x400m hills (8% incline) up-hill repeats (e,m,h – 6:40pace,6:20pace,6:00 pace) then progressive build each mile from 6:20-5:30 (5 miles)
Wednesday am 4 miles
pm 4 miles
Thursday Pm 4x1200, 400jog recovery...3:42(74),3:39(73),3:36(72),3:36(72) – 2 sets 5x200 at 32-33 w/300m jog and 600m jog between sets
Friday Pm bike/easy mileage
Saturday Pm 3sets 5x400 at 68-69 w/ 45 sec rest – 4 min between sets – 5x200 at 32 w/ 30 sec rest
Sunday pm 10 mile long run
Note, this is to get my aerobically fit first to run a good 1500m - Then the speed comes later as OLDSUB4 has suggested in the earlier part of this thread.. Thanks!