Navy SEALs vs. Green Berets vs. Marine Force Recon vs. British SAS?

You are being out of line again, insulting and disrespecting actual combat veterans by representing your stated training achievements and falsely translating them into combat knowledge, which is wholy not the case. I seek verifable empirical data on the performance of the so-called special units and will draw my own conclusions based on such information, if available.

The consensus among posters seems to be that "tough" comprises these traits: ability to attain objective, withstand pain, endure physical hardship, endure mental hardship, suffer torture, kill people, degree of sociopathy etcc

Until the SAS has their recruits lining up to fly fuel laden jumbo jets into skyscrapers, I don't think the SAS really is that "tough" by the standards this thread seems hold. If they were that "tough" (or crazy and sociopathic)I think the UK would be in serious trouble.

Until the Rangers, Green berets start plucking boys out of grade school to be recruits and encouraging them to strap explosives to theirs chests, I don't think the Rangers or Green Beret would even come close to the "toughness" of Hamas or Fatah or Hezbollah based on the standards.

I don't think any "Elite" unit from a developed affluent society (US, UK, Israel) is even close in "toughness" as defined by this thread when compared to soldiers from a warrior culture. Rangers, SAS and SEALS can and do fall back on technology and prosperous societies they come from no matter how tough the conditions are.

When Ranger recruits were at home playing "call to GLory" on PLaystation, Gurkhas were already plucked out of their homes and started in training at least as tough as any elite unit training....at age 10 or 12...With all due respect to the "toughness" of Rangers or SAS..let's get real as to who is "tougher"

[quote]guygonemad wrote:

Trackcoach,

When I was in (78-82) the 82nd Airborne half our company had Ranger tabs and some even had Special Forces tabs and so on they just chosed to stay in the 82nd because the mission was different. quote]

My dad was in the Army from 78-82. He was in the 101st Airborne though. Where were you stationed? I believe he was in Bamburg for most of his time.

Good point. If I could call in an Apache helo strike at any time 24 hours a day, I\'d be talking shit and staring down the Crips and the Bloods, the Keystone Rangers, Mexican Mafia, La Nuestra Familia, The 5 Silician Mafia Families of New York City, Christian Cantwell, Reese Hoffa, Adam Nelson, Breaux Greer, The Hells Angels, The Mongols, L.A.P.D., N.Y.P.D., 600 pound Sumo Wrestlers, Carlos Rey (aka Chuck Norris) and Joey Chestnut !

La Deuxieme DBLE - 2nd paratroop regiment of French Foreign Legion. They are always on rotating deployment in French Guyana, Gabon, Senegal and Djibouti as well as the Pacific. Different environments, requiring a wide range of training and preparedness.

SAS, when their is a hostage situation in a foreign country ie Russia etc they always call SAS, no one else and they do that because they are the best.

Its common knowledge that SAS are the best across the whole planet, apart from Americans who cant accept they're not the best at everything.

I don't seen the Norwegian HV(HeimeVernet) mentioned here. HV>everything.

sas is all hype. the uk hasn't done shit since they were kicked out and defeated in the 1940s.

The Quartermaster corps can kick any one of these guys asses.

If you wanna see someone tough, talk to the guy running the laundry and bath platoon.

Hands down the toughest men are Hamas/Fatah. They fight with rockets, guns, and their bodies against the Stalinist/Zionist invaders of Palestine who are supplied with advanced U.S. weapons. Hamas/Fatah men fight for liberation knowing they don't stand a chance as individuals of living another day. Yet they still fight each day. I admire Hamas/Fatah for the sheer guts and ability to advance as fearless men to their own deaths, one by one, without hesitation. Damn, they are something else.

The various cases made for which units are tougher are interesting, but it all hinges on ones definition of toughness. No disrespect for the various military units, but the physical toughness is just a way to obtain mental toughness. Having served in a Special Forces Group and having spent time at Ranger School, Airborne, and OCS at Benning, I am aware of the physical challange that the training presents, just like training for an marathon etc does. Mental toughness is of greater worth in my view. Nguyen Du said "the heart is worth three times more than the talent."

Unfortunately, obtaining mental toughness in a war setting can well result in a loss of ones humanity. As one who has a blackened heart, I know it enables one to do a lot of things that normal people would not. One should know that it also means that in some cases, one can never really be happy again and regain ones place as a member of society. There is some value of not being intimitated by anyone and not caring about losing ones own life, but I have got to say that if there was some surgery to erase my memories of war and training that gave me these feelings, I would be first in line to have the surgery.

The most mental tough in my view are those who have their humanity and are willing sacrifice with full knowledge of the consequences of their action. One of the heroes to the Vietnamese from America's War is the Quaker who went to the Pentagon and positioned himself on the lawn outside MacNamara's office and set fire to himself to end his life to make a statement against the war. Pat Tillman had a picture of Rachel Corrie on his wall. He told his mother that Corrie was his hero. "She was a stud: she had a lot of guts." Rachel was crushed to death by an Israili bulldozer on Mar. 16, 2003 trying to protect the home of a Palestinian doctor and his family. One of my Veterans For Peace friends and fellow vet lost both legs and a good part of his skull when he refused to move off the tracks in protest of a train transporting nuclear materials at a Navy base. The Vietnamese that I lived and worked with in Viet Nam displayed tremendous toughness in defending their families and homeland without the benefit of a sort of training induced mental toughness or callousness.

I have been around some very decorated individuals including Medal of Honor winners and have witnessed many go on missions that they know there is little chance of survival. Not to degrade their sacrifices, but for me the most tough are those who still posses all their humanity and are fully aware of what they are sacrificing and who are not as dispensable as people like me.

Stackhouse....I believe the 101st Airborne was actually a Air Assault unit(I trained there for my wings), not a Airborne unit. At one time they were Airborne but the mission changed and the unit was were moved to Ky (Ft Campbell). I was at Ft Bragg N.C. during most of my duty, the hottest freaken place I have ever lived! I have lived in Florida, Texas, Kanas, Illinois, and Tennessee.

I was in Bamburg for two months in 1981 for a Reforger exercise. During that time I was assigned with a British and German unit. The Brit's are ASSHOLES! I left there hating them but I still have a lot of equipment and uniforms (hats, belts, etc) I stole from them. The German's were pretty cool. I remember the American Army destroyed the German Farm land and community because of all the rain and heavy equipment (tanks etc) driving around where ever they wanted. There was a media out cry (several families were killed my the tanks running them over...not kidding) but Germany had to suck it up.

Yup, that's why we celebrate MLK day on January 15. MLK was never a soldier, but is regarded as the greatest American ever for what he did to end White racism.

Take away all the gadgets and gizmos, and I would take the Gurkhas over any military unit from any other nation.

Gwhat? may have been the best of the British Empire but were beaten easily by many local militia.

All this talk about how tough the special forces are and no love for Russian SPETSNAZ? Its not my goal to praise these guys as the best of the best, but I do think they deserve their share of the pie. Major part of SPETSNAZ training is still classified, the small part thats is known about their traning would be illegal in 90% of the countries in the West. Torture is a huge part of their training. I was actually involved in an interview of a former SPETSNAZ officer who claimed arms and legs of SPETSNAZ were broken on purpose before they were sent into practice missions in order for them to know what to expect and how to behave in a similiar situation in real combat. There are many Western armed forces/military experts who say that SPETSNAZ can take more abuse and punishment than humanely possible and still function and complete their missions. Im not saying that they're the best as fighting units because Russia always had the shittiest leaders and support in their military. (a soldier's life means absolutely nothing in that country). But when it comes to who the toughest is, I think these guys are right up there with the best of them.

Overall, I think the whole argument of whos better is really senseless and stupid. How can anyone realistically claim one better than the other? Even if that was possible to compare different special forces; the only real way to determine that would be to go through all the service records for all the best special force units in the world and see whos more successful at what they do, but that will never happen.

Take away the guns, armor, helmets and fight man to man, and the ROK Marines will kick the shit out of the SPETSNAZ, SAS, Green Berets, Recons, Seas, etc. any day, even with one armed tied behind their backs.

Nice post....I don't see anyone posting Desmond Doss AKA CMO winner, conscientious objector, Combat medic and in my opinion the toughest ever to live...and he never killed anyone

The Navy hospital corpsman have the highest casualty rate for the non-infantry services. Those guys have no weapon but plenty of balls.