Bigfoot wrote:
What "stalker"? There's a runner on Athleticore who ran the same race at the same time. I made an educated guess.
I was just joking around. I think it's funny that the LetsRun community is so good at tracking down who's who through the internet. The Boston Marathon bib thing was hilarious.
29-timer wrote:
there are many paths to the goal...
what do you think is keeping you from sub-3? find the weak link in your training and train to correct it.
No, i am relatively new to running(just 2 years), 42 years old. PB is 3:12, only 2 marathons. I've made much progress but sub-3 right now is a bit out of reach.
I am still looking for the ideal STRUCTURED laid out plan. Nothing open-ended but rather rigid, that's the way i like things.
I'm at 55-60mpw and can see getting as high as 65-70mpw but nothing higher.
Currently studying the Daniels' Elite and A plans but they are kind of complicated. I find all the various plans to be radically different and i wish this was less confusing. This is the stressful part of it for me.
To the OP, congrats, that is quite an achievement!
My take:
Monday: Easy or off.
Tuesday: Tempo: 20-30 minutes comfortably hard. Once a week. Few mile warm-up and cool-down.
Wednesday: mid-long run: 1:30+ weekly. Relaxed pace.
Thursday: MP run: 5-12 miles (building up to it) Weekly.
Friday: Easy or off
Saturday: long run: 2 hours to 2:30--every other week, or weekly if you can handle it. Relaxed pace, although you could pick it up over the last few miles.
Sunday: Cross-train, easy, or off, depending.
Repeat.
surprised wrote:
No, i am relatively new to running(just 2 years), 42 years old. PB is 3:12, only 2 marathons. I've made much progress but sub-3 right now is a bit out of reach.
Currently studying the Daniels' Elite and A plans but they are kind of complicated. I find all the various plans to be radically different and i wish this was less confusing. This is the stressful part of it for me.
should be within reach... if you've been runing only 2 years and did a 3:12 in (i'm assuming) your 2nd marathon, you should be able to get down to sub-3
the various approaches can be confusing, but they have the same core components ... i say read them all and pick the one that appeals to you and seems to fit the best.
We are a eesourceful group, aren't we?
So much so, that I can't spell check my posts!
Bigfoot wrote:
...eesourceful
First marathon 2004.
Progression = 3:30, 3:10, 3:11, 3:06, 3:05, 3:09, 3:05, 3:03, 3:07, 3:03, 3:22 (hot Chicago), 3:03, 3:56 (Boston bonk), 2:57.
For a long time I did Hansons' type training with lots of MP and tempo runs but it wasn't getting the job done. Hired a coach after Chicago 07 who got me on the speedwork. 3-4 miles of speed on Wed, maybe 2 miles on Fr. Intervals of equal distance to the repeats (except for the mile, then 800 only).
Some running friends were skeptical about the lack of tempo runs, but it worked. I think speedwork accomplishes the same thing but more efficently.
sub3 at last wrote:
I think speedwork accomplishes the same thing but more efficently.
probably right, but for us hamstring challenged folks that 200/400 stuff would kill us
Hey sub3, nice job! I hope that I will be able to do the same in 15 years when I am 52 years old as well! Thanks for the inspiration...
Also, how many and how often did you do the endurolytes during the race?
Well done. Time for you to enjoy the fruits of your hard labour.
Juiced.
Congratulations man.
I didn't notice it mentioned, but what was you average weekly mileage?
I believe for the marathon that is key over all else. Even the long run.
I think the speed work also proves you get efficient without the draining effect of tempos.
I'm in my late 40's now and the pounding is killing me. I think the TM is looking good, as I want to get up around 70 MPW consistently for my next one.
Congrats.
surprised wrote: I am still looking for the ideal STRUCTURED laid out plan. Nothing open-ended but rather rigid, that's the way i like things.
That may turn out to be pretty suboptimal. It's good to have the freedom to push when you're up to it and back off when you need recovery, and progress at the rate you're able to. This helps accommodate individuals' physical variation and life's randomness - some weeks you may have a lot of work or relationship stress or a tender hamstring, others you may be well-rested and ready to hammer and/or add mileage.
Since you must at all costs avoid injury, a completely rigid plan and inflexible plan follower needs a much bigger safety margin than listening to your body (a skill that requires some experience) - you need a plan which doesn't push you over the edge even on your frailest, most stressed and susceptible week. So that plan won't challenge you nearly as much as you could handle on good weeks, unless it could also magically determine when you needed easier weeks and when you were ready for more. It is of necessity a lowest common denominator plan.
Maybe that's what you need - if you've been running all of two years and already "know" your limits are 10 mpw more than you're doing now, you do indeed seem pretty rigid, maybe too stiff to learn new tricks. I'm just sayin'.
And aside from that, there is no one "ideal" training. There is some individual variation on top of the universal stuff, e.g. the OP found better success with training that hasn't worked as well for many of us. If you really want the best structured plan you should follow a different plan each season to find which works best for you. Scrutinizing one more, or twenty more, written plans simply will not tell you - it's not a secret waiting to be unraveled by your intellect. You may as well be reading recipes where you're unfamiliar with some of the ingredients. How can you know if you'll like the result? Only the doing will tell you.
MarathonMind wrote:
I didn't notice it mentioned, but what was you average weekly mileage?
I believe for the marathon that is key over all else. Even the long run.
I think the speed work also proves you get efficient without the draining effect of tempos.
I'm in my late 40's now and the pounding is killing me. I think the TM is looking good, as I want to get up around 70 MPW consistently for my next one.
Congrats.
About 65 mpw, up to 75-80 a few times.
I became a TM addict this winter. Even now in decent weather I am using it for the speedwork. So easy to set the target and go.
wannabe: I planned on 2 Endurolytes per hour in cool weather (50-55). Can't remember if I did 5 or 6.
Cleveland's weather was rainy wasn't it? We had some hail on the east side. You must have had some great focus on Sunday to overcome the weather. Congratulations.
Thanks. Actually this was the best weather in three years. Yes it rained first 8 miles or so, and there were swirling winds, but when we turned west at mile 19 there was not the brutal headwind we faced for 4.5 miles in both '06 (25-30 mph) and '07 (maybe 15-20 mph). That knocked us back several minutes.
Temp was about perfect at 50-55.
flexible wrote:
That may turn out to be pretty suboptimal. It's good to have the freedom to push when you're up to it and back off when you need recovery, and progress at the rate you're able to. This helps accommodate individuals' physical variation and life's randomness - some weeks you may have a lot of work or relationship stress or a tender hamstring, others you may be well-rested and ready to hammer and/or add mileage.
Since you must at all costs avoid injury, a completely rigid plan and inflexible plan follower needs a much bigger safety margin than listening to your body (a skill that requires some experience) - you need a plan which doesn't push you over the edge even on your frailest, most stressed and susceptible week. So that plan won't challenge you nearly as much as you could handle on good weeks, unless it could also magically determine when you needed easier weeks and when you were ready for more. It is of necessity a lowest common denominator plan.
Maybe that's what you need - if you've been running all of two years and already "know" your limits are 10 mpw more than you're doing now, you do indeed seem pretty rigid, maybe too stiff to learn new tricks. I'm just sayin'.
And aside from that, there is no one "ideal" training. There is some individual variation on top of the universal stuff, e.g. the OP found better success with training that hasn't worked as well for many of us. If you really want the best structured plan you should follow a different plan each season to find which works best for you. Scrutinizing one more, or twenty more, written plans simply will not tell you - it's not a secret waiting to be unraveled by your intellect. You may as well be reading recipes where you're unfamiliar with some of the ingredients. How can you know if you'll like the result? Only the doing will tell you.
Thanks, flexible, your points are well-taken. I need these kinds of nudges quite often.
Congratulations! And at 52! Very impressive! Wishing you many more successes!
As a 50something runner myself, I'm always happy to see other 50somethings doing well!
Thanks to all of you and good luck to everyone who is pursuing this goal. What they say in the books (e.g. Running Within) is true: be patient, focus on the journey not the destination, and in time it will come to you.
well done