What could Pistorius run for 800m?

azkorlath wrote:

thats pretty BS how he was the only one not bending over acting tired and that he was walking like it was nothing

who are you responding to?

It's obvious why he's not tired at the end: he isn't able to go all out until about 200m in. So the other guys are going into oxygen debt from the beginning, and he isn't. This isn't an advantage, anyone could run like that.

The real question here is if Pistorious will ever run a 10k.

Eugenial wrote:

The real question here is if Pistorious will ever run a 10k.

When will people here realize that no one laughs at the "10k" joke anymore? It died a LONG time ago.

Just look at the guy. He doesn't even look like a 400m runner. Looks like one of those guys out at the track trying to get in shape by doing wind sprints. I'd love to see what a real athlete can do with those things. There is the tiny setback of getting volunteers to be amputees?

I wonder what the Cheetahs weigh in comparison to a normal lower leg. If they are significantly lighter, it would add to the argument about them being an advantage. I know I feel faster just taking just a few ounces off of my shoes when I go to spikes, let alone a few pounds. I would imagine that would fatigue the quads a lot less.

now the question we should be asking is.......what could he be running without those prostedics and with real legs.

Initially I was saying he could run an incredible 800, but thinking more about it, he probably can't do the mileage necessary for it due to the repetitive stress. There's a reason almost no legitimate 400 runner is any good at the 8, and it is likely the same holdup for Oscar as well. Gotta have an aerobic system.

Forgetting about any competitive advantage he may have when racing, what about advantages in training? How many runners/athletes do you know that get injuries in their knees, ankles, and feet? LOTS! It's easy, and very common, to get injuries in and below the knee that can set back training for any athlete and be especially damaging to an athlete building up for something like the Olympic Games. Oscar Pistorious will never have to deal with such common and debilitating injuries like the able-bodied athletes do. No one has really touched upon this, but I think this is possibly the greatest advantage he has! Everyone would be great if they could push the limits without that nagging little pain or the looming possibility of a major injury...

Interesting debate

The guys from Science of Sport are doing some thoughts on the possible implications of the decision. It includes this analysis on his 800m performance ability, but also stuff about guys getting their legs amputated. Their feeling is that it's unlikely, but that companies might go looking for young children to turn into runners is very realistic. ANd of course, parents...

But most of all, there's this possibility that the technology will improve almost overnight, especially now that there is such a big incentive to improve it. And this technology will help him lose less time at the start, and gain more at the end, and he'll be like 2 seconds faster, with no training.

And yes, I agree, from the waist up, he looks like every other regular guy I see at my track workout. It's from the waist down that he starts getting his advantage!

That link:

http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/2008/05/pistorius-cleared-part-2.html

TG

akskdfasdfasdfssskskelbekele wrote:what could he be running without those prostedics and with real legs.

This is the worst attempt at trying to spell "prosthetics" I've ever seen. Some people are poor at spelling, but this person is a disaster with a keyboard.

Here's another reason why I'm annoyed. I think this wins the "Disingenuous Remark of the Week" award:

" 'If I had to look at the situation, how many amputee athletes use the exact same prosthetic leg as I do and don't run nearly close to the same times?' Pistorius said. "

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hnxmPt4XCOS3rd_yNg9p5hISAtvg

Yeah, Oscar, they have the same *leg* as you, and they have to deal with all the asymmetry problems inherent in that; what they don't have is the same *legS* as you.

Pistorius has an advantage. Though the advantage is obviously different in nature, it shows up much as the wheelchair racers' does: more and more, as the event lengthens.

I like another poster's formulation: This guy is doing a different event.

The fact that his times roughly correspond to those of good ablebodied athletes does not mean that he and they are doing the same event, and does not mean that they should be competing together.

Look at the wheelchair world record times. The 400 is about 46-sec and change (takes thema awhile to get going). The 800-m record is about 1:33. The marathon record is about 1hr 33 min and change. There definately is a mechanical advantage there. I think there would be with the prothetics also. I don't think he should be able to compete in the open race. Why don't we let the wheelchair guys compete in the open race? Why don't we let high jumpers use those huge pogo-sticks?

Look at the wheelchair world record times. The 400 is about 46-sec and change (takes them a awhile to get going). The 800-m record is about 1:33. The marathon record is about 1hr 33 min and change. There definately is a mechanical advantage there the longer the distance. I think there would be with the prothetics also. I don't think he should be able to compete in the open race. Why don't we let the wheelchair guys compete in the open race? Why don't we let high jumpers use those huge pogo-sticks?

Pistorius runs the second half faster, but it's not because he simply can't get up to speed in the first half. His 200m PR is 21.58, which is pretty much what you would expect for a pure 400 runner running 46.68. Obviously he could run the first 200 faster if he wanted to. That doesn't mean he has no advantage. The fact that he chooses to pace differently than all able-bodied athletes suggests there's definitely something different about running on blades, but that difference isn't that he can't achieve max speed in the first 200.

I see your point, but (without data on other runners) I'd expect a 46-mid runner (even a pure 400m guy) to have a personal best much faster than 21.58 for the 200m.

humidxc wrote:

I agree. If he is at a disadvantage from 0-175 (?) but he has a slight advantage over the second half; that would even things out. That is my rationale. I realize others may feel differently.

The fact of the matter is that he is running a different event than the other athletes so regardless of who has the advantage they should not be competing against each other. Even if he doesn't have an advantage he should be competing in his own event at the paralympics. He uses different muscles in different ways to propel himself forward.

The best comparison to another sport would be comparing downhill skiing to snowboarding. Even if a snowboarder could go fast as a skier he should not be competing with them because they are using different methods to get down the hill.

meichenl wrote:

Pistorius runs the second half faster, but it's not because he simply can't get up to speed in the first half. His 200m PR is 21.58, which is pretty much what you would expect for a pure 400 runner running 46.68. Obviously he could run the first 200 faster if he wanted to. That doesn't mean he has no advantage. The fact that he chooses to pace differently than all able-bodied athletes suggests there's definitely something different about running on blades, but that difference isn't that he can't achieve max speed in the first 200.

Maybe he runs the second half of the race faster because his calves arent as tired as the other able-bodied runners in the race

It seems like there is really only one way to solve this debate. Middle distance runners on letsrun needs to cut off their legs and get the "blades." After 3 years of training report back and we will compare PR's. The more people who do it the better.