Finished Again to Carthage Last Night

oldtimes wrote:

I can see how it can come across that way and some of the references are a bit clumsy, but you have to remember that both books came from the fact that Parker was a very good but not great runner in the midst of the running scene around the U. of Florida in those days (e.g., the reign of Doug Dickey/Dick Doobey, learning from Jack Bachelor, Frank Shorter sleeping on his dorm/apartment room floor, getting fired as the Florida XC coach for having long hair). For good or for bad, that's where the books both come from. And he was smarter than Forrest, just not as fast.

This only enforces my opinion of why OAR worked and ATC didn't. OAR comes across as being written by a college student to whom running means everything (obviously Parker realized this). Cassidy was a product of Parker's experiences, but a little better, the runner that Parker wished he could have been. As a result, the book wasn't sophisticated, but it spoke for all of us wishing we could have had a great breakthrough.

On the other hand, ATC comes across as being written by a 40 year old whose dreams haven't progressed beyond the college student he used to be.

What Parker needed to write was a prequel, not a sequel. Aren't we all dying to know how cassidy did in high school? Don't we all want to know about his high school life? Was he a jock? Dork? Playah?

Seriously, I'd love to read about his high school races where some dumb freshman rabbits him through a 440 in 59 at the start of a mile.

Can you imagine? Cass meets the 4:30 miler. Actually there was a guy in OAR who sounded uncannily close to him.

Didn't like it. It was too pat, the OAR-esque jokes were forced. Things were unbelievable, and it has SUCH a similar plot to OAR (Cass decides to do something REALLY hard (gasp!), big bad non-runners who are jealous try to stop him (!!) and then Cass prevails anyway, because he's a badass.

Too bad about the book...I had to read it because I loved OAR, but it'll sit on my bookshelf instead of migrating around the house with a worn front cover and lots of dog eared pages.

It was a good read. The climatic race scene didn't have me putting on my shoes for a hard run like OAR did, but the book was pretty good.

My favorite line came after Mize was killed. "It was the most important moment in his young life, and he missed it."

I just went to Barnes and Noble today and they said they weren't printing the book until April 08, where can I find a copy of it right now?

Thanks in advance.

This book really depends on how you look at it. If you look at it in the right way, it can be extremely motivating. for example, for most college runners this emphasizes that college is basically your last chance to reach your full potential. it can also be pretty depressing if you decide to view it that way.

I really liked the way Parker created the final race scene, especially the end. The way he used the song 'Hallelujah' at the end really created the mood for the race.

I finished this awhile ago, but this is an old thread so so did you. I don't know why people keep saying these bad things about ATC. I loved it. Its is my #2 favorite book, with OAR leading their way. The beginning of the book was supposed to be boring and dumb to us, it's meant to get the point through of the void left in our lives when we leave our beautiful task. The training section was just as detailed as it could be, without repeating lines from OAR, I liked it. And the final race was poetic, beautiful. The race is the best chapter in ATC, and is better than all those in OAR excluding of course "Demons" and maybe the chapter on the mile race at the end.

In conclusion, I loved ACT, it was a fantastic book and all you nay-sayers are crazy

If you really didn't like it try reading it again...this time with your eyes open ^o^

Blaze

I just disliked ATC to be totally honest.

Everytime in the first half they introduced a character and I started to feel something for them- they were removed and you didn't hear about them again unless slotted in for a second without any real conttribution.

Either that or they were shortly after killed off.

There was one section about how his "uncle" died and a long complex description of why it wouldn't ususally happen and to me it just seemed pointless.

I like the idea of the first half being so dull in order to show how dull our lives can become with the fire and thrill of running and also connects with the idea present through-out the book that I expressed above - that people seemed to flit in and out with no real depth to the relationship as opposed to that with his teammates- but to be honest I don't this book was that deep- regardless making the whole first half of the novel dull didn't strike me as interesting- infact the one part where it seemd to pick upw as the fishing which clearly is one of Parker's new hobbies! (Once a fisherman?)

Once a Runner was a beautiful medley of exactly how runners feel about running combined with a touch of rebellion, sacrifice and hard-work with a very basic fairy-tale/coming of age storyline to create a truly outstanding book for any runner. Again to Carthage I can objectively accept as potentially a better written novel for a non-runner but as a runner it has very little in it which amde me feel the same way as Once a Runner did.

Hey, I actually really enjoyed ATC. It felt more real to me in the stage of life I'm presently in. The real world is pretty boring. Especially when you are working a 9-5 that doesn't seem to make a bit of difference to anyone. Is this how Parker feels about practicing law? I wouldn't know. When I was in College and training competitively things seemed more alive and exciting and meaningful. If you stopped competing after college and started a "real" job and realized that it just doesn't hold up to training, you might jump at a chance to start training again seriously. That's kinda how I see ATC. OAR for me was like College and ATC was just what happens after College and competitive running ends and the realization hits you... Running was pretty freaking fun! Why don't I do that all that much anymore? Quintin still has that competitive drive, too. I think there are lots of "retired runners" out there that can really relate to that. Heck, ATC carries a pretty powerful message if you ask me. A few probably. The main one I see is that maybe you shouldn't give up competitive running for the 9-5 and be satisfied with running 4-5 days a week to keep off the pounds. Maybe you still can get out there and compete like you used to. Or if not like you used to, at least some semblance of your former greatness. Life is short and you never know when you'll go. Ask Parker!

Gangsta! wrote:

What Parker needed to write was a prequel, not a sequel. Aren't we all dying to know how cassidy did in high school? Don't we all want to know about his high school life? Was he a jock? Dork? Playah?

Seriously, I'd love to read about his high school races where some dumb freshman rabbits him through a 440 in 59 at the start of a mile.

Gangsta!, I find your posts on this thread rather shallow and pedantic. Your first post was great; it had me on the edge of my seat. It was flowing with untamed energy, just waiting to be unleashed. But in you later posts, that same energy was delivered in a way that came across as awkward, trying to capture a different feeling by using the same method as before. It just didn't work for me. Maybe I'm just not in the right position at this point in my life to truly understand; time will tell.

That said, I liked OAR better than ATC; but I still liked ATC. I can't read enough about running. I liked Pain, The Gift, Life at these Speeds, Bowerman and the Men of Oregon, and even the scientific books about training. Now what I really want to read is a book on Bruce Denton. I would kill for that. I have heard his character was based on Jack Bacheler, and I know next to nothing about him.

Just finished it. yup, I relate. did the comeback thing in my own small way in my 30's and Parker definitely nailed the motivation. The literary style and character development was sometimes a bit choppy, but i loved the characterization of Benji as a Zonker Harris. Running is such a small world. That book was set in the time period when I was on hiatus and living in the "real " world and totally out of touch with running. I got a kick out of reading about the curly haired kid from Coquille that I once knew back in the 70's and the sweat suited icon that helped me get my 5k pr later in life. I'm loaning it to the kid I gave my original OAR copy to 10 years ago. he just got back at it and is now preparing for boston. damn, after reading that book, I might just up my miles myself, once , twice, three times a runner?

You guys have nailed it in saying that collegiate runners might be to young to really get it.

I think it's good that he showed a different side of running, and that he focused on the way we reconcile the sluggish "real world" with the excitement, power, and drama of what we used to be and what we might just have a shot at being again.

The problem is that Parker is trying to do something much harder in this novel. It's much easier to make an enjoyable novel out of the craziness of college running. It has all of the elements of a Hollywood comedy (booze, girls, esprit de corps, sports, crazy pranks, ridiculous authority figures/villains). However, it takes serious writing skills to make art out of the daily grind of reality (because, face it, college running is not reality). As a runner who already knows what he's getting at in ATC, I appreciate what he's done, but, alas, he's no Virginia Woolf, who can make a symphony on a few inches of ivory.

I totally agree and you put that well. I thought the book captured the spirit of the era- when it was perfectly normal, even comendable, to put it all on the line, for a dream with no monetary reward.

It really made me nostalgic for the days of going for a hard run then having a few beers and some unhealthy food as a "reward".

I'm almost 50 and ATC made me want to find a cabin this summer and just run.

But, what you say about the "real" world is true. I am lucky enough to have a vocation that I love and is meaningful, but I still can't capture that old spirit because of the responsibilities that come with grown-up life.

The world is too uptight, many young people are so lacking in imagination that they need electronic devices to keep them occupied.

The book left me feeling nostalgic and meloncholy and I will re-read it- many times.

Yeah that's a good thought. I just finished my copy (Christmas present) and wondered why so many people are trashing it. Besides the obvious reason (that they are Letsrun.com message boarders!), that is.

OAR was perfect for me, going into college with all of my high hopes and excitement. Now that it's all over and I'm doing the "real life" thing, ATC resonated just as strongly. I identified so strongly with it that I couldn't put it down, and had a horrible 20 mile run on Sunday morning because I had stayed up until 2:00 a.m. reading the last third of the book. Ironic. It isn't earth-shattering writing, but Parker "gets it," to be sure. I think most of these critics will understand later in life.

Did anyone notice the Thomas Wolfe references?

I found those funny since his books while fiction were very much based on his life. He even got in a bit of trouble with the folks in Asheville, NC b/c people could tell which characters where based on their lives. It seems Parker's writing tends to parallel his life as well and he wanted to drop some Thomas Wolfe references to reinforce that notion.

Cassidy is Kyle Heffner, check it out.

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I too just finished ATC today. Just wanted to go ahead and extend to everyone who hasn't read it an encouragement to go read it.I think poster hit the nail on the head, the book was really written for the "older runner past his prime" rather than the young college runner the book was seemingly written for in OAR. I feel like this will be a book that 30 years from now, (I'm 22) when I'm no longer running as fast as I used to, will really mean a lot to me.I thought the last 1/4 of the book was really great, everything leading up the Trials and the race itself. The beginning of the book opened pretty strongly, but the book really dulled out towards the middle just talking about Cassidy's life and the people in it. All in all, a good book and I thought was a really nice way to conclude Once a Runner. I really like how Cassidy found resolution in his running at the end, and the story sort've ended with him "at peace" with himself and with running. I thought it had a great overall message.

AKMarmoset wrote:

OAR was perfect for me, going into college with all of my high hopes and excitement. Now that it's all over and I'm doing the "real life" thing, ATC resonated just as strongly. I identified so strongly with it that I couldn't put it down, and had a horrible 20 mile run on Sunday morning because I had stayed up until 2:00 a.m. reading the last third of the book. Ironic. It isn't earth-shattering writing, but Parker "gets it," to be sure. I think most of these critics will understand later in life.

Quenton Cassidy wrote the book?

Hmmm ... interested deduction ... but?

Who do you think really wrote the book ... fictionally

thinking that is:

1: Jim Ryan.

2: Gerry Lindgren.

3. Sidney Crosby.

I do believe one of these characters wrote the book.

Who do YOU think it is?

Q

By the way ... who is Quenton Cassidy?

1. Jack Batchelor?

2. Frank Shorter?

3. Sid Vicious