Nova Special - Training for the Boston Marathon

Wow, you should hope they let charity runners into the trials, you might have a chance if that happens.

Give them some credit, why does it bother you? Boston opened it's doors to charity runners long before the Nova group showed up.

People like you make me sick.

Do you really run 100 mpw and run 2:50?

cmass coach wrote:

ok, this is for you mmaaa, My wife just got home from the showing at WGBH. So, i can give you the numbers.

All but 2 are still running, 7 are signed up to run Boston next year with the Tuft's Presidents Marathon Challenge.

Not too shabby, don't ya think?

Great, why are they running Boston? Do they have have a clue how hard others work, or in some cases how many years, just to get the qualifying time or not run at all?

"You don't get fit by running, but you have to be fit to run"

Basically this sums up why some people can run...and other's can't.

You have to have the body type, you have to be fit, in order to run without getting hurt all the time. A lot of it has to do with weight and Q-angle. That is why so many New Year's Resolutions fail....because their body fails them.

Basically running is 1500 explosive plyometric split jumps every mile. Would you have a beginner with no exercise background at all do that? Running is not for everyone. When MOST people "run" a marathon they run for as long as they can, then walk, then repeat.

Not everyone can run. I see people everyday who try in vain to run. I see people who run 5 miles each and every day and can't go faster than 9 minute pace. They are relatively thin and in shape, but 9 minute pace is as fast as they can go. Some people just can't run like you and me and never will.

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

Basically this sums up why some people can run...and other's can't.

Can't is not the correct word; it is won't. Are you telling me that Terry Fox had it easier as a runner than these people? There are plenty of people missing limbs who run and even do marathons. Bob Weiland lost both legs in Vietnam and then ran across America ... on his hands. It comes down to this ... some people can put up with the repetitiveness of running, the boredom, the exhaustion, in some cases the pain, while other can't. It is not physical at all; it is willpower. Most Americans are too lazy to become real runners. "I can't run" is the excuse that separates nonrunners from amazing people like Fox.

I like how they never mentioned that the fast guy, Johnathan, is actually GWBush's cousin and Johnathan's father who they showed at the finish looks just like his uncle George Bush 41.

I liked it.

When you've been running since childhood as I have (as probably most here have), it's easy to forget what a massive struggle it is for someone who has never exercised much in their life to try to turn themselves into a runner. All the dozens of injuries they face that you never have to deal with.

It's funny, the places they showed them all training are within a mile or two of my house. They were running by the Mystic Lakes here which is my bread-and-butter route. I remember seeing those folks all out there last winter and wondering what group they were with.

Everybody can run wrote:

Can't is not the correct word; it is won't.

Sometimes, "can't" is the correct word. I'm reminded of the women in the Nova special who kept getting stress fractures. She certainly had the will. Her body just kept getting injured. I've seen more than a few of these people over the years. They want to run but their bodies break down too easily.

No amount of willpower can fix that.

I liked the medical/physiology explanations, but I thought the whole idea was irresponsible.

Here are people who haven't exercised, in some cases for their whole lives, and they're trying to finish a marathon?!?! I'm surprised the whole lot of them didn't come down with serious injuries - only one with stress fractures. It takes years to build your body to handle a marathon safely. Rushing it to make a point is just plain stupid. A 10K would have been a more reasonable goal.

Well Old fart, all who started the race finished. Maybe you set your limits too low. Their goal was to finish, they achieved it.

I watched it and agree that it was nicely done.

It also seemed to prove one of my long-held beliefs -- the one that ANY runner, who trains for an runs a marathon regardless of time is still far superior fitnesswise to someone who does nothing. Seems obvious to me, but too many people here put down the 5-hour marathoner, when really we should put down the couch potatoes. The fastest finisher was in 4:09, and then after that is was 4:47 and on up to over 6 hours, so none of them were fast at all.

Why was this proven? When they were doing the V02 Max testing after several weeks of training, all but one of them were in the "superior" range, and the one who wasn't superior was "excellent".

Average_Joe wrote:

All the dozens of injuries they face that you never have to deal with.

Well, that's only because they were pushing to do much too much far too soon in their running. I agree with another poster, it was an irresponsible concept.

Flagpole Willy wrote:

Seems obvious to me, but too many people here put down the 5-hour marathoner, when really we should put down the couch potatoes.

False dichotomy.

I think they made the point that it doen't take running a marathon to be fit and that daily exercise is better. It was also pointed out that running isn't the optimal way to lose weight, that a good diet is required. I thought it was incredible that 12/13 runner who started finished. I'm not certain 12/13 runners who decide to do their first marathon would finish. The best line of the whole show was when Larry? bonked during a long run and he was talking about all the up-beat people around him. He said something to the effect "and there was Uta chirping away, you can do it"(sic) I thought that was funny.

I think it's great that these people trained and finished. It's better that most of them already want to do it again.

I don't think that Boston is the right place for charity runners or anyone who doesn't have the standard. But I blame the race directors for that, not the individual who signs up for a training group and may not even realize the significance of Boston. In general, I think there should be more marathons with standards that could serve as goals for those who want a bigger challenge to work toward but aren't at OT level. Maybe there are some and I'm just not aware of them.

Yeah, I agree the idea of doing so could be considered irresponsible in some ways. Mainly talking to a bunch of marathon medical directors, the main complaint is that people are doing marathons who shouldn't be. For example, the lady who had an ECG abnormality may not have found out about it until it was too late if she wasn't under expert supervision. I agree, taking a sedentary person and having them run a marathon is probably not the best goal to start with, and especially in a limited time-frame.

So, the show may inspire some people to go run a marathon, including some who may be posing danger to themselves. But at the same point, I would hope some people who consider doing a marathon would see it and realize there are dangers involved even when under supervision. I am sure many will not see it that way.

Anyway, nicely done documentary itself...

cmass coach wrote:

Hey Mr. i wish i had not watched. Go to bed and cry yourself to sleep. The people that were part of the Nova team went from 0- to a marathon in less than 9 months. They took a chance and accomplished something they never thought possible. They will inspire others to do the same.

Not everyone can be a great athlete like yourself, did you actually win Boston? You are just jealous that you have trained 90-100 per week and can't run a time worthy of TV coverage. Listening to people like you makes me sick,

Ok, lets give them credit for finishing the marathon and doing something they never really thought was possible. However, these people all looked under-trained and still out of shape when they started the race. It makes you wonder how much running they actually did during the week when they were not running with a group. Part of the benefits and rewards of a marathon is the high level of fitness one achieves if they train for a marathon properly. You can have crappy weather or a bad race on the day of the marathon but you still have that level of fitness that makes you want to keep going. I didn't see that with the Nova runners.

Everybody CAN'T run without being miserable doing it. It has nothing to do with "having it easy". For me and you running everyday is easy and fun, it is enjoyable. I don't think Terry Fox or Bob Weiland were having much fun. They had a different cause.

How many "most Americans" do you see every day? In my line of work I see the average American each and every day in the gym. I see them hop on the treadmill. I see them run outside. I see them try to run everyday only to get hurt. I see them take it very easy and very progressive and still get hurt. I see them want to run with every fiber in their being. The black woman who's relatively thin but with wide hips....gets hurt, or needs orthotics...and still gets hurt. The white recreational warrior, the male triathlete, he runs 3 or 4 times a week and cycles in between...he gets hurt if he tries to run everyday.

I represent something they want to be. How do you run everyday Alan and not get hurt? I hear that at least once a week. Doesn't it hurt? Doesn't...it...hurt? Think about that. Do you hurt when you are just out for a run? Did you EVER hurt? Even when you started? Within my second week of running I was putting in 40 miles. If I did that with the average people I see at the gym they would have hurt knees, hurt feet, hurt hips and they would never run again.

Watch your average person run. They run mostly on the back of their heel. Now watch you and me run...we run mostly on the midfoot. Basically the average person needs to be taught how to run correctly, while we do it naturally. Find me a female runner who doesn't get hurt. What do they have that the average female doesn't?...narrow hips, and that his nothing to do with being fat. Watch the NCAA Women's XC Championships. Those coming across up front will have narrow hips while as you get further and further back you'll see more women with natural (and normal) wide hips. Narrow hips means a reduced q-angle which means less stress on the knees which means less injury.

"You can't run to get fit, you need to get fit to run"-Mike Boyle (Strength & Conditioning Coach for hundreds of players in the NFL, MLB, NBA, NCAA, etc)

cmass coach wrote:

Well Old fart, all who started the race finished. Maybe you set your limits too low. Their goal was to finish, they achieved it.

Lets say you had a son or daughter who even though was a remedial student, was given an entry into an elite prep school. Instead of taking advantage of the opportunity, they expected even more special treatment and proceeded to cut every corner possible and did the minimum to graduate. They got a diploma but were more educated in being told how wonderful it was they were trying.

Would you run around bragging about that "achievement"? How would you feel about their prospects at the next level?

wake yer exes wrote:

Well, that's only because they were pushing to do much too much far too soon in their running. .

No it isn't only because of that. I agree that going straight from couch to marathon is probably irresponsible (or at least not advisable) but these people were getting injuries when they had tried to work up to 5 and 6 miles a run. Long before marathon-type training really kicked in.

I've seen plenty of new runners NOT aiming for the marathon with all sorts of similar injuries. I've seen people running for years who are prone to these sorts of injuries. Some people are just very susceptible to injury.