Ghost of Ashenfelter wrote:
.... My team, bless their hearts, objected to our #4 running varsity upon return from injury because her attitude during her time off was so poor. They called it right, too...
So you punish your runner for a bad attitude DURING HER TIME OFF WHILE INJURED?? Give me a break. An injured teenager who is injured and wants to but can't run has a right to a crappy attitude. You are a crappy coach to punish a runner in that situation.
yea it seems here, unless i am as confused as others, that you are trying to justify keeping a top 7 girl off the team because you don't like her. Because if there are 7 fasters girls then her going to regionals then what is the argument?
Hayduke wrote:
yea it seems here, unless i am as confused as others, that you are trying to justify keeping a top 7 girl off the team because you don't like her. Because if there are 7 fasters girls then her going to regionals then what is the argument?
No, he made it VERY clear - the girl was in the top 7 in ONE early season meet, and has not been in the top 7 since. On top of that, she believes she should be running on the regional team because she is a senior and is entitled to it - and said so in a profanity laced tirade in front of the team, and parents.
The second she goes into a profanity-laced tirade in front of others, it becomes insubordination and she's off the team in my book....primarily because I have a code of conduct which she would've violated.
Plus I have objective measurements for making the varsity team....with tiebreakers and all....so nobody thinks they are "entitled" to anything.
Why was she running varsity before as your 7th runner, when you had other girls running in the varsity reserve who were faster than her?
You should go with your 7 fastest, but I can understand why she would think you intended her to run on the top 7, since you had kept her on varsity and kept the faster girls on varsity reserve.
PDXTrack wrote:
Plus I have objective measurements for making the varsity team....with tiebreakers and all....so nobody thinks they are "entitled" to anything.
For the first time in quite a while, I had the potential for disagreement about who would be top seven by the season's end. I set up a clear policy before our time trial that I explained to each runner. I would ascribe a score based on the number of girls from our school who competed on that given day. First race = TT with 14 girls running. The fastest girl received 14 points, the 2nd girl recieved 13, and so on. After most of the season of this very transparent scoring system, I found that my top seven was pretty set. There was a close race along the way for the bubble spots (6-10), but those soon became clearly distinguishable.
Glad not to know you wrote:
Ghost of Ashenfelter wrote:.... My team, bless their hearts, objected to our #4 running varsity upon return from injury because her attitude during her time off was so poor. They called it right, too...
So you punish your runner for a bad attitude DURING HER TIME OFF WHILE INJURED?? Give me a break. An injured teenager who is injured and wants to but can't run has a right to a crappy attitude. You are a crappy coach to punish a runner in that situation.
Not that I feel I have to justify this, but here goes anyway: The team informed me that while injured, she was disrespecting the team and its members. That's not the same as being bummed out about an injury, something I can well understand. In addition, I heard things from her teachers. Membership on a team carries with it certain responsibilities, in my opinion, including being a good student, citizen, and representative of your school and team. I try to cultivate a team culture of hard work and team spirit, and I'll respect my kids' opinions once they have shown me they buy into that culture. They were unanimous that she didn't deserve to run.
As for the other poster who said I was arrogant because I said they were my spots and I would lend them out, I completely agree that the team is not about the coach. But it's not about entitlement, either, and that's what my statement is meant to illustrate. I admit that perhaps it's not the best way to phrase it, but in context, my kids understand my point. On my team, you earn a spot by your effort, team spirit, grades, citizenship, and of course performance. As a result, we are successful as athletes and as people.
This continues the ongoing Letsrun debate about the nature of high school running. Some say it's simply about running fast, that the world is ultimately about results, and that argument has merit. But I choose to disagree, and I'm heartened by the fact that others do, too. In my mind, we are teachers first. If this makes me a crappy coach, then I'm happy to accept that.
Yes, you are a crappy coach because you have made it abundantly clear it is all about you and unless they kiss your ass, they are not on the team. You exemplify everything that is wrong about HS coaching. Yep, it is all about you!
I think the key thing in this is that you have clear "guidelines" about how to make a team - guidelines which are performance based so everyone knows what they are aiming at.
On top of that it is a matter of building a team ethos - how the team works, how it supports each other, acceptable behaviour, acceptable attitude. Breaches of ethos can be sorted with individual meetings, preferably with parents present.
The bottom line, though, is that the coach's word must be final - the coach assesses the complete picture.
Would that work or is it pie in the sky?
I am still not seeing where the parents were so outrageous in this whole saga....what exactly did they do? Did they complain to the school or come in and talk to the coach? This whole thing seems to be between a snotty senior and her coach.....I would like to hear what the parents did in this as well, since parents can be a real issue these days.
In reading all of this, to me, it appears that this coach did not have a clear plan for regionals, one that should have been spelled out to the team, and he allowed really bad behavior by an athlete to continue. And now he/she is taking the heat for that. A tirade by an athlete laced with profanity in front of the rest of the team is totally unacceptable and really should have been dealt with immediately. I would have tossed her, and then made an appointment with the parents, and the AD to explain the situation. The people that are writing in are correct...it isn't just about winning, being a member of a school team is a privledge and the rules of conduct need to be followed.
I doubt there is much that can be done to remedy this situation this season...this coach needs to develop a clear system and code of conduct for his athletes and then stick to it. Hopefully this will not happen in the future, because this kind of behavior is SO toxic for any type of team.
But I would still like to know what the parents did to contribute to this situation other than raise a daughter that is disrespectful to coaches.
Vedy Interesting wrote:
Yes, you are a crappy coach because you have made it abundantly clear it is all about you and unless they kiss your ass, they are not on the team. You exemplify everything that is wrong about HS coaching. Yep, it is all about you!
I don't think he's made that clear at all. He's made clear that he expects certain standards of behavior from high school athletes and is perhaps as interested in developing them as people as he is in developing them as runners. If you think that adhereing to behavioral standards that a teacher or coach stes is ass kissing, then you've made it clear that I'd rather have Ghost of Ashenfelter as a coach than to have you as a teammate or as an athlete I'd coach.
Ghost of Ashenfelter wrote:
But a crappy attitude in the top seven doesn't have a right to run, although you need to establish that as the team culture. My team, bless their hearts, objected to our #4 running varsity upon return from injury because her attitude during her time off was so poor. They called it right, too.
What is a crappy attitude? That is a non defined term and really doesn't mean anything. If you have rules, they should be in writing and clearly defined. Crappy attitude can be whatever you want it to be.
The team informed me that while injured, she was disrespecting the team and its members. That's not the same as being bummed out about an injury, something I can well understand. In addition, I heard things from her teachers.
Ever hear of the first Amendment? Also, are you new to hs coaching? Girls dis each other all the time. Since when does one get kicked off the team for this? What did the teacher say? Did you confirm any of what you heard with the runner, give her a chance to explain? HS running is about THE KIDS, not about your hurt feelings or subjective definition of disrespect. If you are going to kick runners off the team for SAYING things, you better be prepared to defend yourself.
Bigger Ego wrote:
Ever hear of the first Amendment?
Assuming that this coach is a member of congress, and that he is attempting to make a law abridging the freedom of speech, then you are correct, he is way out of line.
idiot freshman wrote:
Bigger Ego wrote:Ever hear of the first Amendment?
Assuming that this coach is a member of congress, and that he is attempting to make a law abridging the freedom of speech, then you are correct, he is way out of line.
Thank you. I didn't infringe upon anyone's first amendment rights, for heaven's sake--she was definitely not involved in "political speech." Also, thanks to HRE for understanding what we're trying to accomplish.
By the way, let's work on our reading comprehension. I never said I kicked the girl off the team. I said the other girls on the team all believed she had not earned the right to run varsity due to her attitude (of which I have purposely left out the details). I presented the concerns of the other girls, although I was still going to allow her to run varsity for that particular meet. The concerns would factor into future varsity participation. Her response was to cuss out the other girls, call her mother to pick her up before her race, and quit the team.
And if any of you would have allowed that behavior, I'm certain I wouldn't want to run on your team.
Anyway, we've lost the point of the OP. I'm curious what was decided. OP?
what a bunch of morons on this board. I love reading all of the, "I dont understand", "did you set the rules prior", "was she in the top 7". Are you all slow? Read what she wrote, respond with intelligent answers and move on. Clearly, the coach did the right thing. F her and her entitlement. Its easy for one to grandstand for the sake of arguing but clearly, the coach did the right thing and the girl was out of line.