Pierre Joncheray, France - 1:01:36 half marathon, first white man!

Who do you think has more potential? Pierre Joncheray or Galen Rupp? I predict, Joncheray will have a longer, more successful career than Rupp. Joncheray is undertrained and still has a lot of shelf life in his legs. Rupp is somewhat overtrained, and has much less shelf life and improvement. If wrong, please accept apologies.

Ghost in Korea

I Know Marilson in person, believe me... HE IS WHITE!!! 59'33.

ghost wrote:

Who do you think has more potential? Pierre Joncheray or Galen Rupp? I predict, Joncheray will have a longer, more successful career than Rupp. Joncheray is undertrained and still has a lot of shelf life in his legs. Rupp is somewhat overtrained, and has much less shelf life and improvement. If wrong, please accept apologies.

Ghost in Korea

Rupp has more potential without a doubt. This guy will never run 2733 or faster in the 10k, and rupp wasn't even all out when he went 2733 having a huge negative split beyond what's condusive to running your fastest.

I've seen alot of undertraining guys become nothing and guys people say are overtrained become something...here's a perfect example. I'm sure you can figure out which one would be RUpp and which wold be Joncheray.

Dathan Ritz

Wesley Smith

Other good examples

Rupp himself

Mcdougal

Hall

obviously you have negative exmaples like Withrow (although he did have a great frosh year)

But the overtraining comment is a bunch of bullcrap. Taking what someone did in HS and building upon it or around it wisely is what's important. Rupp has made huge grounds while healthy.

Technically, from a racial perspective Marilson, the Brazilian, is a mulatto Brazilian. He has mixed blood, so not in fact caucasian. Just because you appear 'white' does not mean that you are not mixed race. Look at Jason Kidd, who is mixed blood but can pass for 'white.'

I knew I would be called on that, and there is a grey area but the Brazilians, in large numbers, are the result of mixed race intermarriage.

Ghost in Korea

Race course was certified for a World Record, and so I do not know why you cannot give credit where credit is due.

Also, the "FIRST NON AFRICAN AND NON ASIAN" as you have stated was Marilson dos Santos of Brazil, and just for clarification, dos Santos' parents and family is white.

Ghost, i knew you'd be the one to fill us in on the first native Euroman in Udine. Can I ask how youknow for sure that his training is as relatively low volume as you suggest?

I'd be v surprised if your comments on the course accuracy were verified - this was the IAAF world champs for the distance so would be a massive blunder to get the distance wrong.

ghost wrote:

Who do you think has more potential? Pierre Joncheray or Galen Rupp? I predict, Joncheray will have a longer, more successful career than Rupp. Joncheray is undertrained and still has a lot of shelf life in his legs. Rupp is somewhat overtrained, and has much less shelf life and improvement. If wrong, please accept apologies.

Ghost in Korea

I know this board loves to hate Rupp, but you're on six kinds of crack if you think this guy is better than Rupp or ever will be. Rupp was better at 18 than this guy is at 25.

Marilson Dos Santos, um atleta branco. Entao, eu acho e verdade - eu pensei que os atletas do Brazil ter o sangre mixto - voce entender? Por isso, eu escrive, a primera vez que o atleta de Franca era o primo atleta branca nissa competicao.

Marilson fazendo coisas muito boas agora.

Ghost in Korea

Marilson Holy Dos, a white athlete. Entao, I find and truth - I thought that the athletes of the Brazil have bleeds him mixto - voce understand? By that, I escrive, to first time that the athlete of french currency was the cousin white athlete nissa competicao.

Marilson doing very good things now.

ghost wrote:

Technically, from a racial perspective Marilson, the Brazilian, is a mulatto Brazilian. He has mixed blood, so not in fact caucasian. Just because you appear 'white' does not mean that you are not mixed race. Look at Jason Kidd, who is mixed blood but can pass for 'white.'

I knew I would be called on that, and there is a grey area but the Brazilians, in large numbers, are the result of mixed race intermarriage.

Ghost in Korea

Just b/c you have mixed blood does not mean you can not be 'caucasian.' Would you have a problem with a half black half white person calling themselves African American? If you do, why do you have to insist that they refer to themselves as 'mixed'? I know a lot of 'mixed' people who don't like the word mixed, and prefer multiracial. You can't say something like "He has mixed blood, so not in fact 'caucasian'" If an individual is mixed, or multiracial, let them decide what race they choose to identify most with. And if you don't know, don't assume they can't be white just because they are mixed

Yes - I agree with some of the things you say, and also - many Indians and Pakistan people come under the 'caucasian' definition, so it is not a clear area.

What about North African runners? Runners like Morceli and others from Algeria and Morocco? In Morocco, for example - it would be difficult, at times, to classify people on a racial basis, with some Moroccans having clear mixed blood or predominantly lineage linked to Africans from more southern locales. Look at Lalou? If he were the object of a manhunt in South Africa, for example - the police would describe his as 'colored.' What about El Guerouj? How would you classify him on a race basis? White? Mixed race? Arab? Arab is vague, because there are 'white arabs' and 'black arabs.' Look at the players on soccer teams like Saudi Arabia, and you will see quite a few different races.

When I worked in Dominican Republic, most Dominicans classfied themselves as 'white' - but they looked down upon their Haitian neighbours and said the Haitians were 'black.' Yet, when Dominicans go to the U.S., they are often not considered to be white. By the way, I never saw more racism in my life, until I lived in the Dominican, where the Dominicans treated the Haitians with contempt and clear discrimination, based on their dark skin. The Dominicans, of course, have much lighter skin.

Morceli looks like a white man? But is he white, and is he caucasian? You would have to do a racial profile looking at his genetic tree to determine that.

The same for Marilson Dos Santos, who 'appears' white, but may in fact have mixed lineage through his extended family tree, going down several generations.

In any case: Vamos a dizer agora que o primer atleta branca na competicao era o Marilson, e o segundo o Frances. Eu achou que Marilson ter grandes posibilidades pra fazer coisas muito boas na distancia largas (maraton).

Ghost in Korea

He's French!

How much of a man does that make him?

My vote is for Ryan Hall.

http://www.letsrun.com/2007/hallrecord.php

Um, Dominicans are considered white in the United States. I have family there and here in the States (as my great-grandfather is Domincan as well). Where do you live where Dominicans are not considered white? Is Henry considered white in France? If I understand you correctly, then Zidane is Black, correct?

Henry is black, according to the French, and Zidane is know as a 'beur' (French arab). Many French do not like arab origin people, which I find sad, and the French National Front, under Le Pen, has been gaining in pop. in recent years in France, with some areas being over 30% in favor of Le Pen and his policies.

Zidane, however, did a lot to put French arabs in a more favored position, but the reality is that the situation for most French arabs in France is still bad, with most living in urban ghettoes, where even the police never venture.

Dominicans, as a majority are mulattoes (mixed race) with others being black and still others, white. Same kind of racial profile that one finds in Cuba.

The point is: difficult to make clear distinctions with some individuals on appearance alone. You would have to do a family tree study and study the lineage.

What about Romario and many of the Brazilian soccer players - how would you classify them from a racial perspective? Interesting.

Ghost in Korea