Haile Gebs 1995 5K World 12:44 youtube link

alan is getting rocked in this thread, as much as that WR got rocked by Geb

Same stupidity, different side of the argument. Don't kid yourself: You are every bit as "childish" as you were before.

Oh he got all of that one! The crowd is standing on its feet here, the normally reserved Augusta crowd - going wild - for this young Cinderella, he's come outta no where... :)

SVC, I admire your passion on the subject (though you were a tad over the top here and there).

So let me ask you, since I couldn't get a reply out of the brojo's themselves, what do you think of wejo and rojo very strongly implying that Geb, Bekele, Tergat, Shaheen, and the other top East Africans are on drugs? They make these hit and run blanket assertions (not naming names of course), but then avoid answering a direct question it. If you have such harsh words for Alan, Alan, Alan, what do you say to the brojos? At leat Alan named names and said " I think Geb is dirty." This is more honest than saying: "all the world records set since the early 90's" and "nearly all the world records set and medals won these days" are because of EPO, like wejo and rojo have, and then denying that they are actually accusing the PEOPLE doing the THINGS they are say are dirty!

So let me ask you, since I couldn't get a reply out of the brojo's themselves, what do you think of wejo and rojo very strongly implying that Geb, Bekele, Tergat, Shaheen, and the other top East Africans are on drugs?

I smell a troll.

Perhaps the best line in sportscasting ever: "He's won 2 expensive Mercedes motorcars because of his gold medal performances in the World Championships. He can't drive - they're both sitting in the garage back home - but my word can he run!"

They mention earlier in the broadcast that he is one of the all-time greats, and that was in 1995! How much greater is he now, 12 years later?

As soon as I complete my five-year analysis of the Warren Report, I'll hop right on that one, Alan Alan Alan. Er, I mean, Flagga.

Listen, you have to take RunningArt at face value, like Rocky from "Mask."

This was a guy who argued that flight attendants make, or should make, a lot of money because they have one of the most dangerous jobs out there. So wrong on so many levels.

SVC wrote:

So let me ask you, since I couldn't get a reply out of the brojo's themselves, what do you think of wejo and rojo very strongly implying that Geb, Bekele, Tergat, Shaheen, and the other top East Africans are on drugs?

I smell a troll.

Why do you "smell a troll" ? Do you think the brojo's didn't say as much? If one says that all/most of distance the world records are clearly dirty, then aren't you accusing the people that set those records (ie, Geb, Bekele, Tergat, Shaheen, and the other top East Africans) ?? Obviously. Do you want links to the brojo's statements? I am not sure why you think I am trolling.

walter wrote:

This was a guy who argued that flight attendants make, or should make, a lot of money because they have one of the most dangerous jobs out there. So wrong on so many levels.

What?!? Flying waitresses should get paid like doctors? Oy vey. What a piece of work.

Do you want links to the brojo's statements?

Sure, if you want to take the time to find and post them.

No, they should get paid more than doctors, what with all the plane crashes and hijackings.

SVC wrote:

walter wrote:

This was a guy who argued that flight attendants make, or should make, a lot of money because they have one of the most dangerous jobs out there. So wrong on so many levels.

What?!? Flying waitresses should get paid like doctors? Oy vey. What a piece of work.

Alan, you wise old coot. Aren't you about 28 or so, maybe younger. You've got some worldly knowledge don't you? My how you've grown from that wide-eyed 18 year old.

I suppose it would be pointless to point out that Haile Gebrselassie is "only" 34-years-old (not "about 100", as Alan Alan Alan quipped), and that Carlos Lopes won the 1984 Olympic marathon gold at age 37, and then in 1985 ran 2:07.12 at Rotterdam to shatter the WR by 53 seconds. At age 38.

Oh wait, that of course would just prove that Lopes was a doper in Alan Alan Alan's paranoid little world.

Ok, I am repeating myself from another thread, but since it was ignored there, here goes-

From the front page (just scroll down if you want)-

From WEJO:

"The Man Responsible For Possibly More World Records/Olympic Medals Than Anyone In Track History Has Died. - Dr. J. W. Eschbach has succumbed to lung cancer at age 74. Eschbach is the one that discovered that EPO plays a huge role in red-blood cell production and led the clinical trials of the first EPO drug. "

From ROJO:

http://www.letsrun.com/rojospeaksmay23.html

He forcefully argues that EPO is being used by many of the top male distance runners in the world based mainly on the fact that distance records dropped remarkably during the years after EPO started being used.

Let's be straight, what do these points mean? It is crystal clear: they are both saying that those that have set most of the world records since the use of EPO began (late 80's/early 90's) and those that won most of the medals are dirty. Right?? What else could they mean? And of course they are talking about distance running, since that is what EPO mainly helps. So tell me, who was it, pray tell, that set most of the remarkable distance records and won most of the distance medals since EPO came on the scene?? Of course....Geb, Bekele, Komen, Tergat, Shaheen and other top East Africans, right? They set and won the lionshare of wr's and medals, correct?

If they are going to say that the records are dirty, and the medal winners are dirty, let's connect the dots for them and say: you are saying that the guys that did those things are dirty. And we know who the guys are that did these things, I named them, something wejo and rojo won't explicitly do, but something they have already, in the strongest terms, implicitly done. I just think they should be more straightforward about their accusations, and acknowledge WHO EXACTLY it is that they are accusing with such statements. Alan is it least being straight about it.

walter wrote:

No, they should get paid more than doctors, what with all the plane crashes and hijackings.

Yikes. I guess by that logic cab drivers and liquor store clerks should be pulling down Alex Rodriguez-like coin! :)

This is a little like debating the existence of God. Without proof one way or another, it all comes down to what you believe. Alan Alan Alan and Rojo would be analogous to devout atheists. I most of us, me included, are agnostic. Agnostics are open to believing that miracles can happen from time to time.

I think where Rojo's logic suffers is why is it only the Africans made such improvements. If EPO doping was supposedly so rampant in the 90s, how come a single Westerner didn't jump on the EPO bandwagon and whip out a 26:30 10K? American and European cyclists were and are doping like crack addicts. Does it make sense that their track & field counterparts would have abstained en masse for an entire decade?

p.s. pardon the sloppy grammar...

I agree with you generally, but my problem is that rojo would deny being an "atheist" as you put it. He would say, "I never said Geb, Tergat and Bekele were dirty", but then when you asked him, "well do you then retract your piece on EPO?", I don't think he would. He is trying to have it both ways, which is disingenuous. It is like one saying that they think that steroids are responsible for Maris' single season home run record being smashed, and then when you ask that person, "so, you are saying Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa were all dirty?", having them respond with: "no, I never said that."

Blanket accusations are no good. If you think someone is dirty, say it straightforward. Nor is is honest to say "all the top runners are dirty", and then promote the hell out of them on your site. That's BS too.

Both the brojo's statements/pieces STRONGLY imply that Geb, Bekele, Tergat, etc are dirty.

"I think where Rojo's logic suffers is why is it only the Africans made such improvements. If EPO doping was supposedly so rampant in the 90s, how come a single Westerner didn't jump on the EPO bandwagon and whip out a 26:30 10K? American and European cyclists were and are doping like crack addicts. Does it make sense that their track & field counterparts would have abstained en masse for an entire decade?" Quote by SVC

A great post.

I don't know why this point isn't bought up more often? The 'white man' started racing long distances in 1896 (approximate) and began to get closer to his optimum levels by the 1950's. Ron Clarke bought the times down further in the 1960's and those times were/are close to the 'white mans' (Americans/Europeans/Australians etc) limits at 5,000 and 10,000 m (not too many run 13:16 and 27:39, considering that was done 40 years ago).

Now the east Africans started racing long distances in the 1960's and it didn't take long for them to prove their immense talent. But country instability (Ethiopia, Tanzania) and Olympic boycotts held them back a little. By the mid-late '80's they were already proving to be better then the rest of the world. Ngugi 4 straight WCC titles plus Olympic 5,000 m gold. Aouita was the best distance runner in the world during this time. Rono had earlier shown the possibilities of future Kenyan performance (what could be done if a runner of amazing talent focused more on their athletics career and not the bottle?). Rono and Aouita could have run faster (Said wasn't often pushed at 5,000m and only ran one 10,000m, imagine if he had Gebrselassie, Tergat, Komen, Hissou as rivals).

The results in the 1990's speak for themselves and are of no great surprise to most people who know that generally speaking the Kenyans and Ethiopians are more naturally gifted in the sport of distance running then the rest of us.