best "last workouts" to do before a big race.

depends on the distance...for 5k:

1600, 1200, 800, 400

faster than race pace with 400m jog

the distance is 1500m

The last workout is really not that important...it's all the others that went before it that really count. For 1,500 you can do the old Oregon work-out, 400-600-400-200 at faster than race pace.

Recovery on that Oregon workout should be 200m float at marathon pace.

will wrote:

Recovery on that Oregon workout should be 200m float at marathon pace.

Will,

Why would an athlete doing an oregon workout for a 1500m runner have a marathon pace? Do they do marathons for workouts or are you suggesting they do 'equivalent' effort marathon pace?

Just trying to clarify.

Marathon pace is a modern day description of the Lydiard equivalent used when these Oregon workouts were conceived. If you want the Lydiardism, think 1/2 effort (Snell's 5:00 pace for the Friday 10-milers). That's what Dellinger used to use in describing this. I was just trying to use common terminology today's folks mind find meaningful.

Your second question seems rhetorical at best. What about the statement "200m float at marathon pace" leads you to ask about "do they do marathons for workouts" as one of a pair of options when trying to clarify something fairly straightfoward? That just doesn't make much sense. Really, who does marathons for workouts, particularly when I clearly mentioned they used a 200m float? Not sure what the point of your second question was.

Just to be crystal clear, here is a sample workout from Dellinger's book The Competitive Runner's Training Book with this pattern:

1 x 400 at Goal Pace, jog 200 meters

1 x 600 at Goal Pace, jog 200 meters

1 x 400 at Goal Pace, jog 200 meters

1 x 200 at Goal Pace, jog 200 meters

Elsewhere in the book, he outlines specific paces for the simulation drills for a 3:37-3:39 1,500/5,000m runner aiming to pass through rounds. Goal pace (58-58.5 per 400m) followed by 200m segments at 75-80 seconds per 400m. Using his own Purdy charts a 3:39 1,500m runner is worth 980 pts. The equivalent marathon time is 2:13:54 (1:16.2 per 400m). As said before, the 200m pace is basically marathon pace on the float for the faster effort.

If you want to scale it, multiply goal pace by a factor of 1.29 - 1.38 to the eqivalent range for individual effort levels.

How old are you this year? How fast are you?

will wrote:

Using his own Purdy charts a 3:39 1,500m runner is worth 980 pts. The equivalent marathon time is 2:13:54 (1:16.2 per 400m).

If that's what you meant, you're way off base. There's no way a 1500 runner would be able to run a marathon and at the Purdy equivalent of his 1500 time. Not even Webb has that kind of range.

If you meant to say, "The 200 meter jogs should be run at the marathon pace that the 1500 runner would run if he was a marathoner who was exactly as good at the marathoner as he is at the 1500," then I think you should look for a simpler way of saying it. Like "float 20 seconds per lap slower than goal pace."

Example for a Saturday 1500.

Tuesday: 800, 400, 300 ... 90s - 2 min rest

The 800 should simulate the first 800 of your race

The 400 should be a bit quicker but not too much

The 300 should be a fast confident finish but not all out

Thursday: 8 X 200, jog 200

basic race pace with #4 and #8 being quicker

toro wrote:

Example for a Saturday 1500.

Tuesday: 800, 400, 300 ... 90s - 2 min rest

The 800 should simulate the first 800 of your race

The 400 should be a bit quicker but not too much

The 300 should be a fast confident finish but not all out

Thursday: 8 X 200, jog 200

basic race pace with #4 and #8 being quicker

that sounds like an awful lot of intensity to do 2 and 4 days out from a big race. I'd take a look at flotrack's blogs to see what the big boys are doing a week out.

It is not that intense when the workout total is equal to the race distance and the over all time is not much faster than race pace. It should be controlled and relaxed.

From my personal log I have run

1:59, 58, 42

and

29,29,29,26,29,29,29,25

the week of a 3:42 PR

here's some advice - there are no best last workouts before "the big race" and there is no magic in the taper.

the stupidest thing that you can do is to do something that you haven't done before. just do more of the same, and don't change your training, even tapering off the mileage. "peaking" is a myth, just bring it.

peakin is not a myth you are retarded,

if you are fit and if you have put in a lagit base than you can peak and peak well

hold the phone wrote:

will wrote:

Using his own Purdy charts a 3:39 1,500m runner is worth 980 pts. The equivalent marathon time is 2:13:54 (1:16.2 per 400m).

If that's what you meant, you're way off base. There's no way a 1500 runner would be able to run a marathon and at the Purdy equivalent of his 1500 time. Not even Webb has that kind of range.

If you meant to say, "The 200 meter jogs should be run at the marathon pace that the 1500 runner would run if he was a marathoner who was exactly as good at the marathoner as he is at the 1500," then I think you should look for a simpler way of saying it. Like "float 20 seconds per lap slower than goal pace."

Agreed.

dotato wrote:

hold the phone wrote:

If that's what you meant, you're way off base. There's no way a 1500 runner would be able to run a marathon and at the Purdy equivalent of his 1500 time. Not even Webb has that kind of range.

If you meant to say, "The 200 meter jogs should be run at the marathon pace that the 1500 runner would run if he was a marathoner who was exactly as good at the marathoner as he is at the 1500," then I think you should look for a simpler way of saying it. Like "float 20 seconds per lap slower than goal pace."

Agreed.

Say it however you want, it's a good workout. I was just trying to add details to the guys original comment about the 4-6-4-2 drill.

Peaking is a myth.Also, I must point out the obvious irony.If the irony is not obvious, then I cannot help you.

jdhenry149 wrote:

peakin is not a myth you are retarded,

if you are fit and if you have put in a lagit base than you can peak and peak well

i'm 18 and have ran 3:58.

if you have ran a 358 than you wouldnt be afraid to drop your name

and if you ran that 358 i am sure you peaked for it, i doubt you kept training at a high level and it just happend one day