Canadian Team For Osaka???

Lawrence Of Arabia wrote: So after reading that, and learning about Coolseat, I just had to laugh! Or cry! I'm not sure. "Our results from Osaka will allow us to evaluate our athlete’s preparation heading into the 2008 Olympic Games." Except there's at least one guy who SHOULD be on that team, and should be in the next Olympics too if all goes well. Unfortunately, Athletics Canada is the major obstacle to overcome once again.

At the risk of drawing ire on this subject yet again, I'm going to come out, again, and agree with AC's position on this.

First of all, kudos to Coolsaet for his excellent season. He's continuing to improve, and is helping to lead a bit of a resurgence in distance running in Canada. Bravo to him, and good luck to him continuing to develop.

But, let's be real about his chances at Worlds. He has developed into a fine Canadian distance runner, but his times do not put him in sight of a top 16 finish over 5000 or 10,000 in a truly world class field. Could he have a great day and finish that high? Sure he could. But based on performances to date, the chances are slim.

I know a lot of people disagree that AC should insist on standards that ensure a decent chance at a top 16 finish, and we've argued that point on this forum ad nauseum in the past, and nobody will change their mind on that point. Personally, I believe that is a fair and reasonable approach, and unfortunately Reid got the short (shitty) end of the stick.

If I might disagree with myself a little, though, I suppose that AC could have given stronger consideration of Reid's standard in the 10,000. I hate to be wishy washy, but if there has been a borderline case on the application of AC standards, this is probably it.

Anyway, I know Reid reads this forum and will probably see this thread. Keep plugging away at it. You're still on the upward curve, and your time will come.

his time DID come. that is the point. what is all this crap about top 16 anyway?

not a troll. wrote: what is all this crap about top 16 anyway?

If you are asking this questions seriously, then you haven't got the foggiest clue about sports in Canada. AC sets standards for Worlds and the Olympics on the basis of ensuring a reasonable probability of a top 16 finish (or top half of the field, where top 16 doesn't make sense).

BTW, Coolsaet has a pretty balanced perspective on the situation. You can read his thoughts on his non-selection here:

Classy guy.

AC is missing the boat. If an athlete makes the standard, even a B standard, AC should be sending them to the WC. How else are we to develop our top performers if we don't give them a chance to gain valuable international experience, compete against the best, better their performances. This is just a sick way for AC to save a few bucks by sending a small crew.

Crap, the last Olympics we send a small crew because of supremely high standards but the Canadian sailing association sent a bunch of sailors who finished like 103 out of a field of 105 (one example)!!!

If every sporting association used the same standards as AC we'd send over maybe a dozen Oly athletes in total. Time for AC to reevaluate this ridiculous practice.

What was the winning time in the last olympics 5000? how about in 2000/1996? please list the last 5 wc winning 5000m times. reid should be going. now.

not a troll. wrote: What was the winning time in the last olympics 5000? how about in 2000/1996? please list the last 5 wc winning 5000m times. reid should be going. now.

Is that a serious argument? You think because a guy has run ~ 13:20 he automatically would have placed top 16 in one of those years, even though the field included mostly guys who've run close to or faster than 13 flat?

To the other guy who made the comment that these games are an opportunity to develop our athletes - this is really at the heart of our disagreement, I think. WCs and OGs are NOT developmental events - they're the big show. Pan Am games, Jeux de Francophonie, Commonwealth Games etc.... those are the developmental events.

What percentage of athletes sent to wc & olys make the top half of the field cut ? Outside of Sully, Perditia & maybe jason tunks I cant think of anyone.

AC's policies are screwed. The idea should be to send the best athletes we have. Other countries do this.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

August 1 2007

Athletics Canada finalizes World Championships team

OTTAWA – Athletics Canada announced today the team which will compete at the 11th IAAF World Championships in Athletics in Osaka, Japan August 25 to September 2. The team will head to Singapore on August 11 for a two week training and preparation camp. Arrival in Osaka will take place in three waves – August 20, 22, and 24. The travel dates were determined following a comprehensive study of the World Championships schedule, Osaka training venues and logistics.

“The World Championships are the final step in preparation and evaluation of our team on the road to Beijing,” said Head Coach Les Gramantik. Gramantik is anticipating strong performances in Japan on the heels of excellent results at the Pan American Games last week in Rio; “They (Worlds) are the premier event of our sport and I am looking forward to see our athletes execute in Osaka.”

Tyler Christopher won the 400 metres bronze medal at the last (2005) World Championships. Perdita Felicien was the world champion in the women’s hurdles in 2003. 13 members of the team recently won medals at the Pan American Games in Rio de Janeiro. Dylan Armstrong, Diane Cummins, Adam Kunkel, Jim Steacy and Jessica Zelinka all won gold. The men’s 4x100m relay team (Adu-Bobie, Connaughton, Henry, Barnett), Tyler Christopher, Perdita Felicien and Nicole Forrester won silver while Angela Whyte won bronze.

Name

Event

Hometown

Club

Coach

Richard Adu-Bobie

4x100m

Ottawa, ON

Ottawa Lions

Glenroy Gilbert

Dylan Armstrong

Shot put

Kamloops, BC

Kamloops Track and Field

A. Bondarchuk

Simon Bairu

10000m

Regina, SK

Queen City Striders

Jerry Schumacher

Brian Barnett

200m, 4x100m

Edmonton, AB

Capital City

Quin Sekulich

Tim Berrett

50km RW

Edmonton, AB

Leduc Track and Field

John Fitzgerald

Tyler Christopher

400m

Edmonton, AB

Legacy Athletics

Kevin Tyler

Jared Connaughton

4x100m

New Haven, PEI

Eastern Stride Athletics

C. MacAdam

Diane Cummins

800m

Victoria, BC

Pacific Athletics

Brent Fougner

Carmen Douma-Hussar

1500m

Cambridge, ON

New Balance

Marcus O’Sullivan

Malindi Elmore

1500m

Calgary, AB

University of Calgary

Mike Van Tighem

Perdita Felicien

100mH

Pickering, ON

Over the Top

Gary Winkler

Nicole Forrester

High jump

Aurora, ON

Mississauga Track and Field

James Henry

Anson Henry

4x100m

Pickering, ON

Mississauga Track and Field

Dan Pfaff

Shannon King

4x100m

Brampton, ON

York University

Desai Williams

Adam Kunkel

400mH

Paisely, ON

Legacy Athletics

Kevin Tyler

Lioudmila Kortchaguina

Marathon

Thornhill, ON

Independent

Ilia Kounavine

Priscilla Lopes

100mH

Whitby, ON

Independent

Anthony McCleary

Jared MacLoed

110mH

Winnipeg, MB

Winnipeg Optimist

Cliff Rovelto

Chantal Petitclerc

1500m T54

Montréal, QC

Independent

Peter Eriksson

Gary Reed

800m

Kamloops, BC

Pacific Athletics

Wynn Gmitroski

Diane Roy

1500m T54

Hatley, QC

Optimum

Jean Laroche

Scott Russell

Javelin

Windsor, ON

Windsor Legion

Doug Reynolds

Jim Steacy

Hammer throw

Lethbridge, AB

Chinook Track and Field

Larry Steinke

Hilary Stellingwerff

1500m

Guelph, ON

Speed River

D. Scott-Thomas

Kevin Sullivan

1500m

Brantford, ON

Windsor Legion

Juli Henner

Achraf Tadili

800m

Laval, QC

McGill Olympique

Brent Fougner

Angela Whyte

100mH

Edmonton, AB

Independent

Wayne Phipps

Neville Wright

4x100m

Edmonton, AB

Edmonton International

Quin Sekulich

Jessica Zelinka*

Heptathlon

London, ON

Independent

Les Gramantik

Team Staff

Les Gramantik

Head Coach

Calgary, AB

Derek Evely

Event Coach

Edmonton, AB

Brent Fougner

Event Coach

Victoria, BC

Glenroy Gilbert

Event Coach

Ottawa, ON

Rick Reelie

Event Coach

Saskatoon, SK

Martin Goulet

Team Leader

Brossard, QC

Sylvia Forgrave

Team Manager

Kitchener, ON

Scott MacDonald

Technical Manager

Nepean, ON

Jean-Guy Ouellette

Head of Delegation

Sherbrooke, QC

Joanne Mortimore

Chief Executive Officer

Ottawa, ON

Mathieu Gentès

Media Attaché

Ottawa, ON

Dr. Alan Vernec

Physician

Montréal, QC

Julie Gardiner

Physiotherapist

Montréal, QC

Garfield Crooks

Massage therapist

Brampton, ON

Alvin Bodnarchuk

Massage therapist

Saskatoon, SK

Wilbour Kelsick

Chiropractor

Port Moody, BC

*Injured, will not participate

Jessica Zelinka will not be able to participate in Osaka having suffered a ruptured plantar tendon during the 800 metres of the seven-discipline event in Rio. The injury requires 4 to 8 weeks to heal. Zelinka battled through the pain and still managed to finish the race, capturing gold in the heptathlon.

Chantal Petitclerc and Diane Roy qualified for the team with their performances at the Boiling Point Track Classic and International Paralympic Committee World Trials on July 7. They will both compete in the women’s 1500 metres wheelchair demonstration event.

Media who would like obtain a copy of Athletics Canada’s World Championships media guide should contact Mathieu Gentès, Marketing and Communications Manager.

-AC-

I have to agree with Pete here. As well as Coolsaet is running, either there is a consistent policy or there isn't. The Standard of 13.19.71 may be a bit under the IAAF one (13.21?), but it isn't out of line. Sullivan ran 13.19 this year, so he could go in the 5000m if he so desired (which he doesn't). Scheibler ran 13.13 back in '98(?)off of a 3.40 1500m (which Reid ran recently), and that would be good enough to go, and he was only 25 at the time. Reid chose not to go after another fast 10000m, (27.49) which might have put him on the team. As much I respect Reid, and what he has accomplished, time is marching on - he is no longer a young runner (now 28?) and should be at the top of his game - so the idea that he is still "developmental" and so deserves a "break" doesn't fly - even if there is still room to improve. The same could be said for a number of other athletes in a similar situation.

From his blog, Reid gets that, and while obviously wanting to go realizes that he made choices which may help him improve (PB in the 5000m) but haven't got him on the team this year. Keep improving to the 13.15 level, or run 27.45 10000m, and they won't be able to keep him off the Olympic team next year.

The IAAF is the world governing body for track and field. They are the ones that set the A and B standards. I don't agree with a 'lesser' organization, Athletics Canada, reinventing the wheel by paying someone with a calulator to knock off 2 sec or a couple tenths here and there. THe IAAF has set the standards and that should be it. AC can still set criteria like top 3 at Nationals etc. to ensure the team is strong. THe problem is Canada's wins the world curling or hockey; sports entire continents no nothing about and get caught up in 'top 16'type thinking.

Look at 2004; Canada sent no women in the Marathon, the marquee event in 2004, despite the fact FOUR women made it. Yes, it was relaxed but the point is AC is not doing everything it can for it's athletes.

If Coolset lived in almost any other country he would be going. AC sucks.

Your point is well taken, but unless you are prepared (like Scott MacDonald) to get involved with AC and work to make changes from within, then you are just "throwing stones".

I agree that manipulating the standards seems to have little purpose in light of the "reach for the podium" (or whatever it is) as a couple of seconds here or there are not really making any significant difference (at least not a couple of seconds for 5000m anyway). But this is the system (good and bad) and either one supports it (from an athletic perspective) or do something to change it - other than complaining on a message board - or simply run fast enough (as some have on the list Reid provided above) to make it a moot point.

As to the marathon, I never supported Stevenson being on the team as her performances never measured up to top class - and she has proved when given the opportunity that she isn't ready for the jump to world/olympic level races. The same can be said for many others (Deacon aside) - we'll see how Kortchaguina does, but her consistency at 2h30 at least provides some optimism. As Pete said, these aren't "developmental" meets - they are world championships. It shouldn't matter what other countries do either, this is a Canadian "way" - good and bad. Again if you don't like it, do something to change it. Start with getting involved with the provincial associations - certainly in Ontario they are begging for people to help on the board as the same people have been doing it for years (mostly teachers who also coach).

This isn't just AC this is coming from sport Canada. Canada is trying to set an unrealistic standard for all sports across the board, they must feel that anything less than their high and mighty standards are a failure. At least that's what I take from it. The problem is Canada is not a sport nation, there are a few stars and standouts but generally we're not a sporting superpower, except in hockey. If someone meets the international standards they should be allowed to go. If suddenly Canada is faced with choosing between many athletes for a particular even then, sure, raise the bar. Canadian sport fans don't really care who enters the events or what place they come. They can't use financial reasons as an excuse either, go to the website and it shows how much they give to each sport, it's millions.

I'm not sure about your criteria for posting on a message board. If adhered to it would wipe out 90% of the posts!

It's an anonymous board for the most part. Education has to start somewhere. Every single non- runner who I explained the Nicole Stephenson story to was shocked and appalled she was not sent. The fact is she (and others) made the Olympic standard. I'm arguing I'd rather see the part of the AC salaries spent on fiddling with standards be spent on sending athletes who have made IAAF standards.

I am involved in Track and Field and am working to change thinkgs from the political side.

Sometimes runners get too wrapped up in the small details to see the bigger picture. Nicole made the IOC standard. THe COA standard was something like 2:28 high! What do you think of that standard? If you say something in between you are advocating adding more subjectivity to the whole process.

I totally agree H2O girl.

It's almost as if Sport Canada and AC think that if someone just makes the world governing body standards and goes to the Olympics but doesn't win a medal the average layperson (non-athlete) will complain which is far from the truth.

It always shocks me when I think the 4th largest city in north america (toronto) had no real tracks in the downtown core until this year. Some towns like Hopkinton in Mass. have an amazing track in a town of a few thousand. IF you want to go get some teeth knocked out playing hockey there are tons of arenas. A fundemental shift is needed in how Canada approaches sports. Australia would be a great model to follow. In canada if somehow a biathlete happens to do well, the funding floods in for that or other sports. It's a bit of a backwards approach.

In the past, AC has justified higher standards as a cost-saving exercise. At the same time they've complained bitterly about a lack of sponsorship dollars. The problem with AC's attitude to standards is that it works against their feeble attempts at attracting sponsors. Potential sponsors don't care about the standards, they care about exposure. Olympics and Worlds are the high profile meets that have the potential to attract higher profile (ergo big dollar) sponsors at the individual and Association level. AC is simpling cutting off its nose to spite its face. A bigger team with representation in all events means more exposure and a selling point to sponsors.

I agree that Jeux de Francophonie, Pan-Ams and Commonwealths are great developmental meets, however AC seems to miss the boat. Look at the teams at the recent Pan-Ams and Commonwealths. Neither were developmental teams. Francophonie could be better, as the level of competition is mediocre in many events.

Is there a solution to the standards nonsense? Coaches and individual athletes need to take the AC AGM far more seriously. There is no reason that AC members can't push a policy mandating adherence to IAAF standards for international selection.

By the way, did anybody notice the size of the non-athlete delegation for Worlds? Hmmmm...

I agree that we should live or die with the standards.Occasionally, they are deemed too hard, but AC then relies on the fact that someone else set them. In the bigger picture, some development is necessary. To send Cummins and Sullivan again is a nice reward for them, but neither of them has much chance of making a final, or improving for next year, whereas maybe Reid runs 13:30 and gets blown out, but next year runs 13:09 because of this years experience.

bump

28 athletes and 16 STAFF members, that is disgusting!!

another canuck wrote:

To send Cummins and Sullivan again is a nice reward for them, but neither of them has much chance of making a final, or improving for next year, whereas maybe Reid runs 13:30 and gets blown out, but next year runs 13:09 because of this years experience.

You can only go so far with this argument. Cummins and Sullivan have made IAAF 'A' standards. Reid has not (although he came damn close). Sullivan ran 3:32 last year (fastest since 2000) and actually stands quite a good chance of making the final.

Coolseat ran 13:23 two years ago and got to compete at World's under the 'Rising Star' criteria. By your explicitly stated logic, that should have given him the experience to come back last year (or this year) and run 13:10 or whatever.

Point is, he only knocked off two seconds over two years and while he may not be at all a factor at World's, he's got the performances to get himself into all kinds of meets that are more suited to his current capabilities.