Marathon Training w/e July 8th

I didn't hit the mileage I wanted to this week and that is always discouraging for me, but since my mileage had gone up the last 3 weeks, I am trying to look at last week as a down week.

Monday - 17 miles, 6:03 average for the run, comfortable

Tuesday - 9 miles easy

Wednesday - missed

Thursday - 3 x (3 x 1:30 hill) comfortably quick, 12 total

Friday - 10 miles easy

Saturday - missed (bass fishing)

Sunday - 4 miles easy, 6 mile tempo (33:00); cooldown

Total - 60 miles

The week started off well, but we had to go to Columus to look for houses, and between that, and keeping my boys from going nuts, I wasn't able to run this weekend.

Mon: Steady 9

Tues: Tempo 8 w/ 25 min. @ 85-90% MHR

Wed: Steady 8

Thurs: Steady 7

Fri: Fartlek 7 w/ 20-X-(45 sec. @ 3K w/ 45 sec. active recovery)

Sat: Off

Sun: Off

Total: 39

Bad, bad week, but I should be back on track this week.

Solid week for myself, about 110miles and starting to feel good towards the end of the week. Easy week this week and then it's time for the hills. Matt

Mon: AM: 2hour15

PM: REST

Tues: AM: 60mins

PM: Active Release + 45mins + 4x(4x50m)uphill, jog down

Wed: AM: 60mins

PM: 40mins + 4x50m uphill strength work

Thurs: AM: 22k fartlek

PM: REST

Fri: AM: REST

PM: 40mins + 10x100m barefoot on grass, jog back

Sat: AM: 3x3miles uphill finish, rest 5mins

PM: 40mins

Sun: AM: 2hours35

Mondays's long run is really last week's long run as I raced on Sunday.

Goal: Sub 2:22

Marathon: ?

Decent week for me. Taking the mileage a little lower for a while.

Mon 10M Easy

Tue 3M w/u, 2M (9:58), 800 jog, 8x400 (69-70 avg) 200 jog, 3M c/d

Wed 10M Easy

Thu 10M Easy

Fri 2m w/u, 6M Tempo (5:21), 2m c/d

Sat 8M Easy

Sun 5M Easy, 10M @ 5:25, 5M Easy

Total of 81 Miles for the week.

Columbus, Oct.21, goal 3:10-3:15

Mon. 7 miles

Tues. off

Wed. 7.5 miles

Thurs. 11 miles, first 4 with my son in stroller

Fri. 8 miles

Sat. 7 miles

Sun. 15 miles, miles 8.5 to 12.5 were done at MP, trying to hit 7:15, ended up with 7:10, 7:21, 7:13, 7:08. Feeling better about dialing that 7:15 pace into the legs.

Left leg that has bothered me in the past acted last week, went to my ART guy. A little sore for a few days but felt fine the second half of Sundays long run. Happy about that. Hopefully I caught it in time.

I could use some advice. Next week I plan to introduce some mile repeats. 6x1 mile at half marathon pace or slightly faster, a few weeks later will do 3x2 miles, than 2x3 miles. I do not want to go much faster than half marathon pace since I am prone to injury when I do that.I figure half marathon pace is better than just easy miles.

Now for the question. What is the best way to do the workout for marathon prep?

1. warm up 15 minutes, 6x1 mile, cooldown 15 minutes

2. warm up, 3x 1 mile, run 30 minutes, 3 x 1 mile, cooldown

3. Any other ways to do manipulate this workout that is best for the marathon?

Also, how much rest between repeats?

Any advice would be great.

Goal Marathon: Mohawk Hudson, Oct 7

Goal 2:37:xx (6:00/mile pace)

Total: 19 miles

Mon: AM: 7. PM: 12

Tue: Off

Wed: Off (biked 60 miles hard though)

Thu: Off

Fri: Off (biked 36 miles hard though)

Sat: Off

Sun: Off (biked 33 miles easy and swam 800 yards though)

This week was a waste. I started off Monday with a nice double of 19. Thought I was going to have a killer week. I felt great. But when I was running home at night, in the last couple of miles, my right achilles started to bother me. It was tight and was starting to hurt

Normally when this happens I stop, take my time, stretch, loosen it up and then continue. But this time, I was so annoyed I just kept going. Dumb.

Afterwards, it didn't hurt that badly, it just felt "wrong". But the next morning when I tried my morning run, the stiffness I normally feel just wouldn't go away. The tendon, which is always tender to the touch during high mileage, felt too tender.

I could have kept going all week and managed that great week of mileage, but I have learned the hard way too many times that when it feels like that and I keep going, it just gets incrementally worse and worse.

So I decided to cut the cord and overreact. I took a full week off (or it will be a week if I don't run today). It was annoying because it felt great after one day off but that feeling is deceptive.

I'm hoping that overreacting and losing a week now will save me a couple of months off down the road. I'm pretty sure it has.

TWC wrote:

I could use some advice. Next week I plan to introduce some mile repeats. 6x1 mile at half marathon pace or slightly faster, a few weeks later will do 3x2 miles, than 2x3 miles. I do not want to go much faster than half marathon pace since I am prone to injury when I do that.I figure half marathon pace is better than just easy miles.

Now for the question. What is the best way to do the workout for marathon prep?

1. warm up 15 minutes, 6x1 mile, cooldown 15 minutes

2. warm up, 3x 1 mile, run 30 minutes, 3 x 1 mile, cooldown

3. Any other ways to do manipulate this workout that is best for the marathon?

Also, how much rest between repeats?

Any advice would be great.

TWC, there is a couple of things I might suggest. First, since half marathon pace (to slightly faster - 15k pace) is what Dr. Daniels describes as threshold pace (what you are doing is what he calls cruise intervals) I would suggest following his guidelines as to recovery time - namely 20% of run time - so if you are doing these @ 6:45 pace then you would take 80 seconds recovery between them.

Another idea on a way to maximize these is to extend your warm-up a little (say 30 minutes +) so that you come in a little tired to begin with.

Good luck with them.

Richmond Nov 10

3:35

Mon off

Tues off

Wed 7 mi. (with 23:15 5k)

Thurs 6 mi.

Fri off

Sat 14 mi (with 1:48 half marathon)

Sun 3 mi

With all the 100 mpw/sub 2;40 guys here, I'm really bringing up the rear. With two races (runs really), I took it a little easier mileage-wise in an attempt to juggle some family responsibilities this past weekend. Anyway, the two races this week give me a base mark for some harder training paces that I'll need to do over the next four months. Was optimistically shooting for 1:45 (8 min/mile pace) but despite a flat bike trail course, it was hot early Saturday though I did managed to kick past three people that last mile, which, for me, is a highlight. I'm planning to throw in a 6-8 mile half marathon pace run every other week for a while to build strength.

Mileage should be back up around 50 this week.

Good luck with the training and injury maintenance.

Those achilles issues are best treated early.

Goal - Chicago Oct 7 - 3:10

Not exactly the mileage I was looking for this week, but I'm still nursing a foot injury which just wont go away.

Mon - OFF (recovery from Sun long run)

Tues - 8 mi (4 out @ 7:40, 4 back @ 7:00)

Wed - 5 mi

Thurs - 8 miles (6 x 800: 800's Avg 3:03, 400 active rest Avg 2:58), planned on 8 x 800, but 90+ temps cut it short

Fri - OFF

Sat - OFF, missed run due to travel

Sun - 17 mile long run, didnt even bother to take my watch since it was 97 degrees when I started - stopped at nearly every water fountain along the way. Avg probably between 7:45 and 8:00 pace, with the last few being close to MP.

38 miles total (ugh)

Good luck to everyone with their training.

Goal Race: unknown - maybe Detroit again

Goal time: as close to 3:10 as I can get

Sun pm - shakeout run - 34 min / 4.0 mi - loosen up for a samll local race later in the evening

Sun pm - 5k race - 19:56 min / 3.1 mi - struggled a bit in the race but got a PR out of it

Sun pm - cool-down - 10 min / 1.1 mi -

Mon pm - E rec - 34 min / 4.0 mi -

Tue pm - E rec - 34 min / 4.0 mi -

Wed am - Firecracker mile race + w/u c/d - 27 min / 3.4 mi - local July 4th mile race in 5:45 for a mile PR

Wed pm - Easy - 66 min / 8.0 mi - strained a bit for the mile race and have a few sore spots

Thu pm - E rec - 35 min / 4.0 mi - left hammy not happy

Fri pm - E rec - 50 min / 6.0 mi - tired, tight and sore

Sat pm - 9 Easy + 5 @ MP - 111 min / 14.1 mi - mid 80's today but mid 90's tomorrow so long run today!

Total 51.7 mi

Feeling a bit beat-up lately and fighting PF for close to a year now isn't helping. Even though I set a couple of PR's tis week, I do not feel smooth and running fast is a struggle.

TWC: Daniels' Plan A (which I follow closely) has a workout similar to your #2 but is a lot longer: 2 mi w/u + 20 min T pace + 80 min Easy + 20 min T pace + 2 mi c/d.

T(threshold) pace is a bit faster than 1/2MP (unless your Ryan Hall :) but you could use 1/2MP. It is tough but very doable and good workout IMHO.

Has anyone tried something like this in their marathon prep.

About 3-4 weeks out from the race - in one day run:

AM: 13 miles - first 6-7 easy, last 6-7 @ MP to 2% faster

PM: 13 miles - first 6-7 easy, last 6-7 @ MP to 2% faster

I recently saw were Renato Canova has some of his athletes do this and was intigued by it.

If you have done it (or something similar) I'd like to hear what you thought of it.

Race: Richmond (11/10)

Goal: Sub 2:33 (5:50 pace)

Mon: AM- 9 in to work, PM- 9 to home

Tue: AM- 9 in to work, PM- 9 to home

Wed: 5 mile warm up, 8k race in 25:54 (13:11 at turn), 5 cool down. Controlled effort, not sure what I could do flat out. Fast first 800m, negative split was probably due to hills.

Thu: AM- 9 in to work, PM- 9 miles w/ 6 @ 5:40 (roughly)

Fri: 10 miles easy, then went to the beach for the day

Sat: 19 long run. Didn't bring a watch, but it was sub-7:00s. Felt good first 13, then dead the last 6. Maybe it was the heat (80s), maybe it's b/c I've been slack about doing long runs the past few weeks.

Sun: 7 very easy. Hot.

Total: 105

Decent week. A little concerned on how I felt after about 13 miles in the long run. I probably need to put in more longish efforts during the week, maybe try to buck up and turn one of those mid-week commutes into a 13 or 14 miler. That said, I'm on one of the most consistent stretches I've been on, with 7 weeks consecutively from 100 to 110. This next week looks rough with the weather (upper 90s will make my afternoons fun) and then the following week I'll be on vacation. So, hopefully I can keep it up.

Goal: Columbus, 3:10

57.7 miles for the week.

Mon: 8 mi w/ 3 mi in 6:27, 6:19, 6:18 (felt great)

Tues: 2 mi (stopped early for non-running reasons)

Wed: 8 mi, including 5k in 19:23 (totally fell apart for some reason)

Thur: 10.4 mi

Fri: 4 mi

Sat: 17.2 mi w/ 4 mi at 7:00 pace

Sun: 8 mi plus weights (core mostly)

chicago low 2:20s

8.5

11 - wup then 14 x 400 avg ~72 with 50-60 sec jog (started every 2:10)

6.5

10 moderate

6

very hilly 21 miles in 2:06, first 18 at about 5:55 pace then slowed at the end. first hard long run, felt ok

8

71 miles...i tend not to do as many miles and concentrate on long runs and tempos which i will start soon. i train with a 2:20/1:06 guy who never does more than around 80 so i am trying his approach.

Joe- Your post sounded painfully familiar. I also hope to run 2:30-2:36 range this fall. For two years I had really struggled with achilles problems until this past spring. I know this board has countless achilles threads, but thought I might suggest what finally helped me get better....

First, I had orthotics made. It took an entire winter to adapt to them, but now I wear them at all times and feel it really made a difference. Second, I started doing this exercise I read about on previous post (attributed to Kevin Sullivan) where you stand on a step and use other leg to lift up and stand on bad leg's toes. Then slowly drop heal to below level of step. I still do 5 sets of twenty every day.. Finally, I got these "boots" that I wear at night. They hold your ankle in neutral position and off-load the achilles.

Good luck

Monday, 7-02-2007

4 Miles Recovery in 26:45

Tuesday, 7-03-2007

4 Miles Recovery in 26:49

Wednesday, 7-04-2007

10K in 33:01

10:06, 26:47 (16:40), 31:52 (5:05)

Thursday, 7-05-2007

7 Miles Regeneration in 47:14

Friday, 7-06-2007

AM: 9 Miles Moderate in 59:57

PM: 7 Miles Easy in 48:10

Saturday, 7-07-2007

7-Miler in 40:58

5:54, 11:25 (5:31), 17:15 (5:49), 23:15 (5:59),

28:59 (5:44), 35:16 (6:17), 5:42

Sunday, 7-08-2007

17 Miles Moderate in 1:44:24

Total

70 Miles (113K)

Goal: Sub 2:30

Just finished a higher mileage week for me. This week will be recovery week.

Monday EZ 4.3 miles

Tuesday 10 miles relaxed pace

Wednesday 10 miles slow

Thursday 15.2 miles Med-Long run, humid, but ran just a little slower than my goal long run training pace

Friday 9 miles-slow to steady

Saturday 8.8 miles relaxed

Sunday 20 mile Long Run VERY HOT AND HUMID...ended up finishing 6 minutes slower than my long run pace. But it was a good mental challenge, good thing where I ran there were water stops along the way!

Total: 77.3 miles

Xenon. Thanks for the info. The good news for me is that I generally do not struggle with achilles problems very much. I am fortunate in that I do not have any sort of systemic problem in my stride that causes achilles injury. This time, I simply overdid things for a couple of weeks and am paying a minor price for it.

Tried a short run last night. Achilles felt a lot better but not quite normal yet so I'll probably give it a couple more days.

PBF wrote:

i tend not to do as many miles and concentrate on long runs and tempos which i will start soon. i train with a 2:20/1:06 guy who never does more than around 80 so i am trying his approach.

I call this the extremely talented approach. I wish I could get away with a training program like that, everything would a whole lot easier.