Boilermaker 2007 Sub Elite

I think Don made two very good points: 1. There is no perfect answer to this situation given the realities of staging this particular race. 2. An invited runner who's well past their glory days is smart enough to not be a hindrance to the people behind them. I think the same can be said of sub-elite women in this case.

In all honesty, I thought there were a lot more women in the 55-60 minute category than there are (after I double checked last year's results). I think we're talking about another dozen people. Definitely not big enough for their own corral, and as long as they line up at the back of the sub-elite corral and start intelligently, there probably won't be a problem. And for the record, I'll go out on a limb and say that I think a 60 minute female finish at the B'maker is superior to a 55 minute male finish. (But if we stretch it much more than 60 the numbers will be getting larger and the pace differentials will increase further.)

Is that entirely fair to a 57 minute male? No. Is it entirely fair to the women? No. Perfect solution? No. Nobody gets exactly what they want but nobody gets dumped on either. I'm not saying we'll definitely use 60 for the women, but it's a working value at this point.

Solomon I'm not, but I do try to look out for everybody.

if you run 55 minutes then you should be with all the people who can run 55 minutes.man or women.i would hate to see a 55 minute women get run over or hold up a 51 minute man or women.yes it has happen.

I think it just takes some common sense. There are also a bunch of unseeded runners who end up starting with the masses, and many of these are sub 52 or even 52 minute guys. I think Jim's doing his best to get them moved a little closer to the front, but he can't do a search of every entrant - they have to get their information to him.I would personally make room at the starting line for 16x anytime, even if she wasn't wearing her bunhuggers.

Andy B wrote:

if you run 55 minutes then you should be with all the people who can run 55 minutes.man or women.i would hate to see a 55 minute women get run over or hold up a 51 minute man or women.yes it has happen.

except that only 2 masters female winner made the 55 minute requirement in last years race. #3 did not and if entered this year would be no doubt be"invited" as she is well known and they would start with guys going 10 minutes faster. But yet a female master that can only muster 6:00 pace, that is essentially an unknown...gets sent to the masses because she would impede on men that are going 7-8 seconds faster?? Seems to me if a female submitting a sub57 for 15k, running with 55 minute guys would create some faster times for both the woman that might take advantage of a large group "and" the men that don't want to be beat by her.

I understand the premise of keeping people with like times together, but I guess as a woman, I have to jump in with 16x on this one. My sub57 is less impeding in the sub elite corral than your elite women with the elite men. I'll pass on the "boys club".

Soooo, if you're planning to run the B'maker, send me your info. Like I said, the working limit for women will be 60, so your sub 57 would be OK.

I think you misinterpreted my comment - I wholeheartedly agree with you. The female master you referred to has indeed been invited back as an elite, and I support that invitation. Will she run faster than 56 minutes? I doubt it, but she's a great competitor who inspires men and women alike. She deserves the honor of the elite bib number, and she is savvy enough not to line up with the Kenyans. I like the approach of making some space in the elite fields for a handful of the top female and male master runners, as do I extending the sub-elite standard to 60 minutes for fast women. Personally, I'll be on the fence for the sub-elite corral due to timing snafus with the races I intended to use as documention (being directed 0.5 mile off course in a 5k and no time at all in another).

Jim,

I think you made the right call relaxing the ladies' sub-elite time standard. I honestly couldn't figure out why you would have the same standard for men and women. But anyway, you've fixed that, so good on you.

Out of curiosity - for the future, not for this year - what sort of time does a master have to run to get a decent seed in this race? The masters folks in your elite corral - what time standard determines a spot up there?

Jim:

Thank you for taking on this daunting, albeit rewarding task. Not sure if this was mentioned.

SUB-ELITE RUNNER BAGGAGE

What about having runner gear shipped to the finish?

Will they have their own shuttle? Or does it still need to

be sent on the box truck that is stationed in front of

the Utica Boilers offices?

(Not a question for me...i'm not even close to sub-elite shape....ARGGGHHHH!)

Good luck to all runners.

Pete: Elite masters men are usually running high 40, very low 50. I ran 53:46 last year (age 48) and was not in the money so that should give you some idea (also, I was in the sub-elite corral). Guys in the 50+ category are coming in around 53 usually. I think you would do well at this race and I'm sure you'd have a great time. Lots of Canadians come down for it.

celeriter: Good question! I don't know the answer to that. They might throw all the sub-elite stuff in with the elites. The warm-up areas are common so that would make sense, but I am not sure. I like to park near the finish area so it's not an issue for me, but I'll check it out.

BTW, as I haven't seen you in a year anyway, how was Iceland?

Thanks Jim. I certainly don't consider myself remotely close to elite, but some races have fairly lenient standards, and I'm happy to take advantage when they are. Yours seem to be in line with some of the bigger races that look for - say - a 2:35 marathon for a master to be considered "elite."

We might put this one the calendar for next year, since we've heard from many friends that it's a fantastic event, and it's not that far away. We'll be in the middle of moving this year, however. If I suggest the trip to my wife, I fear the consequences, which I can't predict but would no doubt be unpleasant. :-)

I'm not sure what baggage you'll need. It'll likely be hot and humid, so you'll want to run as close to naked as legally possible. There is also plenty of parking near the start, so if you pick up yuor packet on race day, just leave everything except your bib in your car and jog or walk the 0.5-1 mile to the starting line.

[quote]celeriter wrote:

What about having runner gear shipped to the finish?

[quote]

What may be a better option is to park near the finish and take one of the buses over to the starting area. The buses run from court st. (just across the highway) starting pretty early, and there's plenty of parking in the surrounding area, which is less than a half mile from the finish. Saves you the dreaded trip of taking a bus back to the start after the post race festivities.