Marathon Training WE 5/6

This past February I had a very good day at the Myrtle Beach Marathon (PR) and I attribute that to 3 things:

1) Increased mileage - 5 of the 7 weeks prior to taper were between 80-88 miles each as opposed to 70-75 for previous marathons.

2) Long Runs: In the 7 weeks before the taper I went 24 miles twice and 20-22 twice.

3) Marathon Pace Work: I did a marathon paced run at least every 10 days. Usually 15k but about 3.5 weeks before the race I went 16 miles at marathon pace (I had planned 14-16 miles but felt good so I went the whole 16).

During the race the pace seemed so comfortable that I coasted through the half marathon point feeling good. I had done it before, often and recently. I came through 16 miles in almost exactly the time I did in my rehersal run 3 weeks earlier, confident and knowing that I could keep that rhythm going for a good while longer.

I definately think plenty of marathon paced run (some for extended distances) late in the marathon cycle are a great way to build confidence and get the body use to the rhythm of the pace you intend to carry come race day. I do more tempo runs and speed workouts earlier in the cycle to make that marathon pace feel easier.

Anyways that my 2 cents on the issue. Take it for whatever you think its worth.

My above message was in regards to the EWH message below:

EWH wrote:

This is a great thread, with some refreshingly positive comments. Thanks to everyone for starting this up.

1-5 May-35 MPW (5 days) 8:30m/min

To those who have broken into the 2:50's and lower, What were some of your favorite workouts that helped you check that your training was on par with MP (for me 6:52 ave)

I was considering 2:00 hr runs with the last 30 at MP as well as some 15 mile runs at MP starting in Aug.

ivyrunner wrote:

During the race I drank Gatorade relatively frequently. By the end of the race, I was stopping at every fluid station. I didn't consume any gels or anything. During training, I didn't drink anything during my runs (which based on talking to others, I realize was a mistake). But I ran all my long runs with no water and was fine so I figured during the race I would be ok since I would be drinking.

Yeah you should always train with what you are going to be using during the race. For me it's water and Gu. If I accidently take Gatorade or any other sports drink during the race I will actually spit it out. The sports drink and Gu combo is not a good one for me.

I agree with the earlier posts--this really is a great thread (as it is every week).

To follow up somewhat on the theme of MP runs... I'm shooting for something sub 2:50 at Mohawk-Hudson in the fall and am planning to use Pfitz 70+ mpw to try to do that. It seems to put a pretty good emphasis on MP runs. Do any of you have an opinion on whether it gives enough emphasis--or whether there are any areas you would add to? (e.g., there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of speed work in it, which, even if it isn't as necessary for a marathon, is nevertheless my personal biggest weakness.)

the poet mcteagle wrote:

To follow up somewhat on the theme of MP runs... I'm shooting for something sub 2:50 at Mohawk-Hudson in the fall .)

Sorry I don't have an opinion on Pfitzinger for you but I will be running Mohawk-Hudson as well, so I'll see you there.

(No I cannot lend you twenty pounds.)

Thanks A_J, and others. That is reassuring but I find it hard sometimes not to jump into this now instead of the boring base stuff I am in now. I plan to build up to 65-70 before I get into Half MP/hills/MP stuff.

Related to that, I had three questions for everyone:

1. What pace did you use for your aerobic base? I am currently running around 8:15 to 8:30 and it feels really slow. I have read aerobic pace is 1.5 to 2 mins slower than MP, (for me it's around 6:50+1:30=8:20).

2. Generally speaking, is 300 miles enough to build the base? (ie before going into longer runs and harder efforts)After reading some posts on Letsrun, I am just spending time on the legs, hopefully building up glycogen stores and the rest of the stuff that comes with a base. I think I maybe thinking too literally of these as periodized training, but it will coincide with working up to the above weekly mileage..

3. Where do you top out your runs at? I have heard some programs that go no farther than 15, but most top out at 22-23. I am guessing harder efforts at 15-ish and LSD for the 23 miler.

EWH

Just returned from studying in the Middle East, so I have a long way to go, but you have to begin somewhere. I was only running 10-15mi(3 months) a week while in Yemen, so I'm building from the beginning.

Goal: Philadelphia Marathon (2:32)

Mon-Thurs- off

Fri- 4mi (first run back in the States)

Sat- 4mi

Sun- 8mi (longest run in a while, felt great though, I guess the 7 years of running preceding my break abroad has paid off).

I don't pick a pace or a range. Some days I just run at best aerobic effort - the best pace I can do while still being clearly (easily) aerobic. Other days I just run easily and look at the scenery, not even trying to do "best" anything. I let the pace fall where it may. Only on hard days (1 to 3 times a week) do I actually try to hit any specific pace.

I don't know. I don't strictly periodize. I just get my mileage up there, and then start putting in workouts. I think you have to work on your base all the time except taper.

I've done up to 28 miles but I don't think I personally ever got much benefit out of going longer than, say, 22. My longest MP run was 12 miles out of a 19 mile long run

(I think it's a good idea to try to get the term "LSD" out of your vocabulary though. Distance days are not meant to be slow so much as they're meant to be easy.)

Thanks A_J

Average_Joe wrote:

Sorry I don't have an opinion on Pfitzinger for you but I will be running Mohawk-Hudson as well, so I'll see you there.

(No I cannot lend you twenty pounds.)

Well thanks for nothing then... (but you know, I can pay you back when this postal order comes from Australia. Honestly.)

I'm already getting excited for Mohawk-Hudson... I've just been putting in 70 mile weeks right now to have a reasonable base for training, which for me will get a little more regimented at the end of the month.