Marathon Training WE 5/6

Thanks NY Thoner for getting us started. Nice week of work!

Here is mine:

Mon: am 5k easy pm 7.5k easy

Tue: am 10k easy pm 8k easy

Wed: am 15k easy pm 7.5k steady (daughter's tempo run)

Thu: am 15k easy pm 8k easy

Fri: am 2k w-u, 8 x 1600 @ threshold w 60 sec recovery, 2k c-d pm 8k easy

Sat: am 10k easy pm 7.5k easy (4x1k with my daughter - her Vo2 Max pace)

Sun: am 15k easy pm 7.5k easy

Total: 141k (88 miles) with no long run.

This morning I got in a good VO2 Max workout:

2k w-u, 10 x 800 w 400 jog, 2k c-d (hit them all in within 1 second of each other @ 5k pace)

Hope to be back at 100 mile this week.

Geez NY Thoner, can you expand upon that Sunday long run? 26 miles with 9 up-tempo and 9 at marathon pace. That is a rough sounding workout!

I've been thinking of adding a 20 miler into my mix with first 5 miles @ marathon pace, the middle 10 easy and then the last 5 at marathon pace. Have you ever tried anything like that?

Race: Scotiabank Toronto Marathon Sept. 30

Goal: Boston redemption

After a sorry attempt at sub-3 in Boston, I'm signed up for another marathon in the fall.

Weeks since Boston have been 12, 20, 30 miles, plus some mountain biking.

Legs are feeling pretty good now. My plan is to work on speed for about a month and keep the mileage down. Enjoy the first half of the summer with some trail races and 40-ish mile weeks on four days of running, plus two days of riding. In July I'll shift back toward run-only training and 60-ish mile weeks. Bump up the miles again in August and early Sept., then try again ...

Last week's speed workouts:

Sun: 400, 800, 1200, 800, 400, 400, 400 ALL at 90 sec quarters. Legs okay two weeks after Boston.

Tues: Terrible 5k effort in 20:30 on dirt. Legs beat from track session.

Friday: 8 miles with 3 X 1 mile at 6:05, 6:20, 6:10

Sunday: 12 miles with 1 X 4 miles at 7:05. Felt good. 6 X 20 sec strides on grass afterwards.

Overall, a good week. Planned cutback week.

Columbus, 10/21, goal: 3:10-3:15

Mon. off

Tues. 7 miles

Wed. 7 miles with my son in jogging stroller

Thurs. 10 miles

Fri. 6 miles

Sat. 8 miles

Sun. 11.5 miles

Total: 49.5 miles

chicago.

goal: sub-2:40

monday: 9 miles easy

tuesday: 10 miles easy

wedneday: 10 miles w/ 4*200 strides

thursday: 11 miles w/ 8K @ goal MP

friday: 9 miles w/ 5K @ goal MP

saturday: 13 miles moderate

sunday: 8 miles easy

70 total on 7 runs.

ny thoner - is that you nash? its ryan, from brooklaw.

good week to all.

MTH wrote:

Geez NY Thoner, can you expand upon that Sunday long run? 26 miles with 9 up-tempo and 9 at marathon pace. That is a rough sounding workout!

I've been thinking of adding a 20 miler into my mix with first 5 miles @ marathon pace, the middle 10 easy and then the last 5 at marathon pace. Have you ever tried anything like that?

Well I have done 5 or 6 runs between 24 and 26 miles, but all easy. I ran last evening which was a great night to run - low 50s easy breeze. I have to run 8+ miles to get Central Park, I noticed that yesterday as I tried to push the pace I got thier 3+ minutes faster than usual. I am fairly familiar with running on the extended and big bridle paths so I knew what type of times I should be running for the more uptempo 9. In the middle I did two big bridles at 15:03 and 14:32 (watch out KD!). Basically there were some good looking girls running pretty well so I picked it up. Then, since I didn't bring a metro card, I had no choice but to run 8+ miles home. Next time I will bring a metro card and do a longer slower tempo portion.

You guys are putting some solid weeks up in here. I will try to keep it going.

Goal: Grandma's Sub 2:22.

Monday: Easy/Med/Hard 14 miler. Started at 6:24 made it down to 5:18 by the end. Avg. 5:54

Tuesday: Easy 14

Wednesday: 3 wu, strides, 4x1200 (3:40), 6x200 (31), 3 cd

Thursday: Medium 14 (5:52)

Friday: Easy/Med 14

Saturday: Easy 8

Sunday: Easy 24

Total of 100. Pretty good week. Didn't really have too much planned besides the mileage. Had to see how I felt after last week was pretty rough and I felt good. So on my runs I just threw in some harder stuff when I felt good and the track workout on Wednesday went good.

Goal Race: unknown - maybe Detroit again

Goal time: as close to 3:10 as I can get

Sun pm - E rec - 35 min / 4.0 mi

Mon am - E rec - 34 min / 4.0 mi

Tue am - off - 0 min / 0.0 mi

Wed pm - E rec - 36 min / 4.0 mi

Thu am - E rec - 43 min / 5.1 mi

Fri am - E rec - 34 min / 4.0 mi

Sat pm - E rec - 50 min / 6.0 mi

Total 27.1 mi

1st full week since Boston. Break was nice but it feels good to get the legs moving again.

HR is very high (as usual for me following a marathon) but starting to come back a bit toward the end of the week.

Flying Pig - yesterday

Goal 3:40 Finished 3:53:54

This was my fifith marathon. Two in '04, two in '05.

Though my last marathon was in Nov 2005 , after having sesamoid issues last year, my plan was to try for a PR despite only slightly more than 600 training miles for 2007. Still with four runs of 18 or more miles, a few sub marathon pace eight milers and couple of tune up 5 and 10k races, I figured I'd take a shot, knowing that only two months of 40+ mile weeks is not exactly optimum volume.

Flying Pig course includes a long 3 mile climb at mile 5 through 8. Actually didn't feel too bad after that segment and hit the halfway at around 1:50, and told my running partner we'd have to bear down to negative split. Left IT band started to cramp around mile 15 and quads got very tight about a mile later. Had to try and stretch them quickly at the water stops. My partner fell back around mile 18 and finished in 4:10 (he trained even less than I had). Still managed to save some face with an 8:30 final mile and looking strong for the crowd.

On the training menu for the fall will be marathon pace run of 14-16 miles. Still was good to get back out there and see what could happen during several hours of hard running.

Also wanted to ask the amarthoners posting here...how inactive are you all the last one or two days before the marathon? I traveled from Pittsburgh to Cincy Saturday morning and took Friday and Saturday off from any running. I did spend a couple hours cutting the grass Friday evening and spent several hours Saturday at the expo and walking to the pasta dinner. Thinking back on it, I'll probably get more pree-race rest. I am sure more miles will help also.

Congrats on making it. Sorry it didn't quite go as planned. Looks like you have already figured out some of the problems you made have had from your post (only 600 miles..., only two months of ..., I am sure more miles...) for next time.

To answer your question. I usually travel to my Marathons two days out so that day is pretty busy and active and like you did I spend a couple of hours at the expo the day before. I try to be as inactive as I can the day before but too much laying around just makes me tired and/or ansy so I usually do something for a few hours.

How would you rate the Flying Pig in comparison to your other marathons?

I usually take friday off and jog easy 20mins w/ strides on saturday.

Depending on how far away the race is I usually travel the day before if only a few hours by car, but if its a 5+ hour trip I'll go 2 days before. I usually get in 4-5 miles easy 2 days out and then take the day before the race off and try and limit my time on my feet. I only scan a few of the better booths at the expo and like to have a leasurely dinner and beer at a local italian restuarant rather than the race expo dinner. I try and keep my schedule as regular as possible in the last 24-48 hours.

Congrats on completing number 5. Now that you back into it again, are you planning a fall race?

[quote]NY Thoner wrote:

How would you rate the Flying Pig in comparison to your other marathons?

quote]

In terms of course difficulty..

Besides Cincy, I've run Cleveland, Huntington WV(Marshall U.), Marine Corps, & Frederick, MD. I think the Pig was toughest with the early 3 mile climb, a mile long incline at mile 17 and then some long downhills. Huntingdon was very very flat (ran 3:43); Frederick, Cleveland and Marine Corps seemed relatively flat, with some mildly rolling hills.

For crowd support on the course, the Flying Pig was great. Water stops every mile (though they must have used tap water for the gatorade- tasted like sour pool water with all the chlorine), bands and lots of crowd support.

MTH wrote:

Depending on how far away the race is I usually travel the day before if only a few hours by car, but if its a 5+ hour trip I'll go 2 days before. I usually get in 4-5 miles easy 2 days out and then take the day before the race off and try and limit my time on my feet. I only scan a few of the better booths at the expo and like to have a leasurely dinner and beer at a local italian restuarant rather than the race expo dinner. I try and keep my schedule as regular as possible in the last 24-48 hours.

Congrats on completing number 5. Now that you back into it again, are you planning a fall race?

MTH,

Yes, I'm planning a fall race. Was looking at Richmond, Erie, Columbus, Akron (though I've heard that hilly) among others. I'm trying to keep it with a days drive from

Pittsburgh.

Miles and Miles wrote:

Congrats on making it. Sorry it didn't quite go as planned. Looks like you have already figured out some of the problems you made have had from your post (only 600 miles..., only two months of ..., I am sure more miles...) for next time.

To answer your question. I usually travel to my Marathons two days out so that day is pretty busy and active and like you did I spend a couple of hours at the expo the day before. I try to be as inactive as I can the day before but too much laying around just makes me tired and/or ansy so I usually do something for a few hours.

Miles,

Thanks. It didn't go as planned and I wasn't surprised. With the limited time to train after my foot healed, I figured I'd give it the best shot without overtraining and re-injuring it. So that limited the mileage build-up rate and I supplemented it with spinning on the stationary bike. Since I had deferred my Pig entry from last year, it was pencilled in early and I kept the fingers crossed. Hell, the first of week of February, I was considering foot surgery, so all things considered, I got some good base training in along with a marathon memory.

Mike in HC wrote:

MTH,

Yes, I'm planning a fall race. Was looking at Richmond, Erie, Columbus, Akron (though I've heard that hilly) among others. I'm trying to keep it with a days drive from

Pittsburgh.

You might want to consider the OBX Marathon (Nov 11th). Its flat and the scenery if great. It's in the Outer Banks of NC starting at Kitty Hawk. It would push the days drive a bit but you could sell it as "mini-vacation" over veterans day weekend. Best of luck which ever one you pick.

I have a question for you experienced marathoners. I just recently ran my first marathon a week ago. My goal was 3:30 but I completely cramped up starting at mile 17 and had to basically stop to walk/stretch every half mile or so for the last 10 miles or so. I went out in 1:43 but finished in 4:05. Does anyone have tips on how to avoid cramping like that? I was hydrating all week and during the race so I don't think that was a problem. To give you some background, I ran cross country and track in high school and college so I am a runner. I took about two years off before I decided to start training for the marathon. I know I didn't train as much as I should have but I still ran five 17+ mile runs. My best training run was a 19 miler at 7:20 pace so I thought I should be able to handle 8:00 pace for the whole marathon. I'm planning on running a fall race (NYC or Philly) so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

ivyrunner wrote:

Does anyone have tips on how to avoid cramping like that? I was hydrating all week and during the race so I don't think that was a problem.

For me I've found 2 keys to avoiding cramps

1. More weekly mileage (but preferring longer, single runs to doubles)

2. Potassium: 2 or 3 days before the marathon, I start adding a few high-potassium foods into my diet. Tomatoes and oranges work great but some people like banans too. Don't bother with supplements. They are legally prevented from having enough to make a difference.

Just got back from running the Pocono Marathon.

Cold morning with a strong headwind for much of the way. This was offset by a very fast course.

I finished in 2:39:28 (PR by almost 2 minutes) and in 4th place. I feel quite a bit better now about dropping out of Boston before I completely fried my body.

Race went great. I basically sat back for the first 3-4 miles and then just got rolling. The miles from 8 to 17 were mostly downhill (with a couple of BIG downhill) so I banked a lot of time. Unfortunately, that chewed up my legs pretty severely so I hit the wall at 18 or so. From 21 on I was in survival mode. Fortunately, I survived a lot better than I usually do and never went slower than 6:33.

Winner did 2:32. I could see the 2nd and 3rd place guys until 22 miles but right at the point I thought I was going to start to overtake them, I hit the wall.

Now it's a few weeks of swimming, biking and mostly easy running. Then in June I start cranking up the mileage again.

Good luck to all you still running marathons out there.

1. 6:31

2. 6:08

3. 5:58

4. 6:19

5. 6:04

6. 5:54

7. 6:01

8. 5:58

9. 5:37 (BIG downhill)

10. 5:53

11. 5:55

12. 5:44 (significant downhill)

13. 5:53

14. 5:51

15. 5:48

16. 5:40 (sizeable downhill)

17. 6:00

18. 5:49

19. 6:11 (the wall hits)

20. 6:07

21. 6:08

22. 6:16

23. 6:24

24. 6:33

25. 6:29

26. 6:33