Cycling and Armstrong....you must be kidding

Could be the reason he blows away the competition. There really isn't any.

Then why don't you guys go make the competition. Trust me, he'd blow away the Kenyans.

Sure, you have a point, there are no cycling teams in the US.

You could make a very similar argument about distance running. There may be teams in the US, but most focus on participation and not competition. There is no real competition in running either - or at least you look at things that way if you are an ethiopian/kenyan. There is little competition outside of Africa.

In bicycling there is, generally, little competition outside of Europe.

Lance is one of the greatest athletes. In case you haven't tried it, attempt to ride a bike for 4+ hours @ 28 mph or even just an hour averaging 31 mph. I bet you will struggle.

You can't take anything away from Lance or any of the other cyclist in the TdF. There is more to being a great athlete than just the endurance you believe africans to have in greater amounts than europeans or americans. There is determination, the ability to ignore the pain and many other factors. I guarantee Lance would welcome the challenge of any African.

But did you ever think that just maybe Lance is more talented and works a hell of a lot harder than most other people. With his determination he would succeed @ most challenges.

I'd be willing to bet a buck short and not a cyst couldn't ride a mile@31mph. TdF riders are phenomenal athletes. And just because the roads are inundated with Africans it doesn't mean the Europeans don't win their fair share of Olympic and WC medals. They tend to wait for the moment rather than pimp themselves out a lot.

By any standard, Lance is a great athlete. Just because a person is East African does not make them a superior endurance athlete regardless of the sport. Their dominance in running indicates that, yes, they are on average superior runners. If your assesment is correct, however, that means that in time, East Africans will come to dominate all endurance sports, including swimming, rowing, cross-country skiing, etc., given the financial means to pursue these disciplines. I don't see that happening, because each sport, though requiring endurance, is a unique skill and requires a mixed bag of talents / strengths. Your theory that a properly trained East African would make minced meat of the best European cyclists is quite popular, but hugely speculative. No doubt, in time, someone will assist an East African in breaking into the sport of cycling and, little by little, maybe we'll find out if your prediction is true. What's more, what does saying a West African would destroy Baden Cooke in a sprint prove? In all likelihood, that sprinter wouldn't have the endurance to even finish the Tour de France. The guys in the tour are phenomenal athletes. Give them some credit.

Ok, Kenya. Big deal. The deal is that the rest of the world, Like over a BILLION people in China, cycles but most have never even heard of the Tour de France. Oh yeah, and a ton of Chinese ride bikes but don't race. But we know they do run. Oh and they aren't 5'10" 165. Trust me, you don't know what you are talking about.

Guest wrote:

You could make a very similar argument about distance running. There may be teams in the US, but most focus on participation and not competition.

No, for most the focus is on competition. High School teams, college teams (for starters) are all about competition.

And plain old running clubs have a lot of it as well. How many regional road racing "Grand Prix" series are there? dozen? Hundreds? Here in Massachusetts, there are plenty of running clubs. In some, most members are in it for nothing but the competition, but some clubs are very serious competitive ones and every club has members trying to place in races, score USATF Grand Prix points, and win money. A few are shooting for Olympic Trials.

Guest wrote:

You could make a very similar argument about distance running. There may be teams in the US, but most focus on participation and not competition. There is no real competition in running either - or at least you look at things that way if you are an ethiopian/kenyan. There is little competition outside of Africa.

In bicycling there is, generally, little competition outside of Europe.

In my high school, we raced when we "played" track. But thats just me. I don't know where you went to school.

Yes, the best runners in the world are certainly ethiopian/Kenyan but look at all the other countries that compete, all of them. Norway. Finland. Djibouti. There are not a ton of paved roads in much of Africa so yes they are given a distinct disadvantage. Where in running, you don't need roads. Soccer, you don't need a bunch of gear either. Cycling, you need a bike which depending on weight can make a huge difference. Just as Mr. Millimeter.

Yes, there are a ton of participants in running but c'mon. That is the pool we are pulling from. If someone can roll, they do. And we hear about them. But thanks for making my point.

Deion think you're just trying to mix it up a bit, but I will agree with you to a point.

The fewer athletes you have participating in any given sport, the less that sport can truly show its greatest potential. Statistics will show that if as many people cycled as play basketball in the United States, Lance Armstrong would not have won the Tour de France, and he would not even be the best cyclist in the country. Somewhere right now, there is a better cyclist in the US than Lance Armstrong, but we will never know his gift because he will never try it.

I still disagree about high school being about competition. For us on this board, it likely was, but it wasn't for hardly any of my teammates.

Also, those of us that "trained" thought we were working hard with our 40 mile weeks, but we really weren't. I am surprised there was disagreement with this thought, considering the general state of running in the US.

Money talks. If the cycling comp is so bad and with the money fairly good (after all, many current pro cyclists making a decent living at it) why wouldn't these superior endurance athletes from other countries take advantage? If the comp is so poor then it would be damn easy for some as yet to be identified group to dominate it and, in a few short years, make enough cash to live comfortably for a long, long time. So I am sure you could recruit some C-team Kenyan runners, put 'em on a bike for a few months and then they'd hand Lance his jock.

Sorta like that Kenyan who took up XC-skiing to compete in the Olympics...oh yeah that's right he finished just about last.

Ok, time to put down Its Not about the Bike...Good for him and the rest. 31mph is great. Yes, I can take plenty away. There is not a ton of people racing bikes. Ok, nevermind the Kenyans. Where are the ASIAN people? Tour de France isn't like NYC Marathon where you can try to run. Nope, you got to be with Telekom or a Postie. Lance wasn't even the best on his H.S. cross country team and he was also swimming and riding. He was doing a bunch of cardio and still wasn't the "man" in running which is also a sport largely determined by aerobic power.

And I bet because you were beating your teammates.

I too was running 40 a week and thought I was working my butt off until I read about Lindgren and heard stories of others training more. You are exactly right on this point.

You gotta be freakin' kiddin' me. For once they pick a guy for athlete of the year who does an endurance sport instead of a baseball or football player, and all you're doing is complaining that not enough countries participate in that sport?

Siddown and shuddup.

Cycling is not a deep sport idiot boy. Its like someone being world champion in depth diving. Just because some mags pick him as Athlete of the Year its no big deal. I just think I would have put Khannouchi rather than Armstrong. He had a much better year.

So Standdup and Keep Talkin'

Running is a joke, how many countries actually take running seriously ? My country, Ethiopia and Morocco and maybe Japan if I think about the marathon. I mean come on, just FOUR countries, no wonder it is so easy for us Kenyans to clean up all the time. All the European countries and the US are just part time fuddy duddies when it comes to running and just as well too because that just makes it easier for us who take it seriously.

I thik you having a joke... and yet you are not so far from the truth. I think many people over-estimate the number of 'serious' runners out there. In the UK, there is probably only around 600-700 that can run a sub-35min 10k and less than 50 that can break 30mins- out of a population of 50,000,000. People see thousands lining up for big city marathons and are under some strange illusion that they are full of serious runners, when of course they are not. Senior athletics in the UK is not just in decline, it is in freefall and will soon disappear off the sporting map - a pattern that can also be seen in most 'western' nations.

Only 600-700 under 35 minutes? Ugh - that's bad if accurate. Hell, Kenya probably has that many women who can do that.

35 minutes isn't an amazing time for 10K - certainly not so good that only 700 in a nation of 50,000,000 should be able to do it. With some luck, I'll be able to do that in the next year, and I would consider it a success, but I would also consider it a great success to be able to get into my state championship track meet.

Where did you get your statistics? If they are true, the nation of Sebastian Coe, Steve Ovett, and Steve Jones will soon be as relevant in international distance racing as Kenya is in cross-country. Skiing, that is.