Word.
Word.
?Ludacris V.L? aka Vin*
Of all the coaches I have watched the last two decades, you are the one that has impressed me, and I think the rest of America, the most. I?m certain Stanford will miss you greatly. How?s your sons hammer throw coming along? Well I hope.
Somehow, however, I expected you to be able to spell ?mandatory? and ?meandering.?
You graduated from C.W. Post in 1975, right? Four years right? Someone of your stature wouldn?t take five. And yet you saw an NCAA videotape of Mike Johnson in your freshman year, 71 (or spring 72?) when Johnson was coaching at Highline Community College. C.W. Post must have had quite an audiovisual department at the time to pull that one off.
Ludacris, you say ?no one is to judge what is a great contribution or not to our beloved sport.? And your first post?
In terms of the work on the Encyclopedia of International Games, the reason I chose the topic was precisely the opposite of your statement. The work is original in its conception, scope and implementation. Fifteen years ago there was not a book or encyclopedia that contained histories of even the well-known games such as the Pan-American, Commonwealth or Asian Games. Now there is. The entry on the Arab Games is the first written in the English language. In total the work contains entries on 163 international multisport competitions, that have been held on over 1200 occasions. Work continues. A second edition will contain well over three hundred types of games held on over 2000 occasions.
?Yikes!? You work for Hallmark, perhaps? The world revolves, and has since day one, on the buying, selling and exchanging of goods, services and information. My point was that Coach Johnson was not only influential in my running career, but also in the creating of this work. But yes, thanks for mentioning it, the book is available from amazon.com, barnes and noble at bn.com or the publisher at mcfarlandpub.com
As for the question, ?is Mike Johnson going to drop the Western Oregon job he just accepted for a chance to get back into the Pac-10?? The principal parties who need to know the answer to that question at this time, know it.
Daniel Bell
* My apologies to the real Vin Lananna. I don?t know him personally but have respected and admired his accomplishments from afar both at Stanford and Dartmouth.
Where did "Ludacris (V.L.)" misspell "mandatory"?
You seem too stressed, Mr. Bell.
Daniel Bell writes: "As for the question, ?is Mike Johnson going to drop the Western Oregon job he just accepted for a chance to get back into the Pac-10?? The principal parties who need to know the answer to that question at this time, know it."
Is that a cryptic way of saying Mike Johnson has the character of a sewer rat and will be slithering over to OSU? You are so specific on other issues, but are "ooooh, mysterious" on that question. If he is staying put and honoring his committment to Western Oregon, just say it. If he is not, I guess your little fantasy about him has a crack in it. One can only assume that you either know he is ditching WOU and don't want to come out and say it because it won't look good, or that you don't know but know his character well enough to believe he probably would ditch WOU.
And while, in all honesty, your book sounds kinda interesting, your attitude and blatant use of this forum for your own commercial gain are really sad. The world may work on the buying, selling...blah, blah, blah, but this forum doesn't. That's all we need here now...a bunch of peddlers selling this or that on a discussion forum. Like we all don't get enough SPAM in the e-mail box.
It looks like the question about whether Mike Johnson would drop WOU like a bad habit has been answered. He obviously will. Which means he has applied. Will OSU hire him or will they hire a woman? And if they hire him, how long before they fire him?
Dan Bell,
My initial post was just an attempt to ask a few questions about a situation but you have since pissed me off. You are, and always have been, an ass kissing dweeb of a one dimensional bible toting moron. And now you are apparently the fine ownwer of a matching set of autographed Mike Johnson knee pads.
My original point was all about the fact that Mike Johnson has been lurking around the Corvallis area since BEING FIRED from Boise State, with every intention of getting the position at OSU if AND when it became a reality. Well, it's a reality. But, he just sold out to Western Oregon. What's he gonna do Dan? Can you come up for air long enough to ask him?
El Cab wrote ?Where did "Ludacris (V.L.)" misspell "mandatory"?? ?You seem too stressed, Mr. Bell.?
El Cab ? thanks for joining the fray ? we needed someone who can?t read to anchor the anonymous half-wit relay team with the person who can?t spell, the person who can?t add and the person who can?t think. Actually, I?m enjoying this quite a bit. It?s a refreshing reminder of the kinds of people I don?t have to deal with on a daily basis.
?Truth?, You hold me in far too high esteem. Not only that you?re a freaking mathematical, historical and legal genius. Fired from Boise State? (Prove it.)= ?Fired from his three previous D-1 jobs?? Playing very loose with the "facts" aren?t we? Provide factual evidence that he was ?fired from his three previous D-1 jobs.? You weren?t seeking information, you were slandering. They'd have to use angstroms to measure your testicular fortitude.
?Yikes? wrote, ?The world may work on the buying, selling...blah, blah, blah, but this forum doesn't.?
Hmmm, I missed the 48% off on Nike Watches, Discount prices on discus, shots, javelins, training gear and more. Huge Selection. Low Prices. Secure. Running, Walking & More at the top and bottom of each page. Nice Logic, ?Yikes.? Go to the head of the class.
Yikes, quivering behind a false identity, yet brave enough to call someone else a sewer rat by name.
If you have a story or experience that is based on fact and not hearsay, then come out and say it. Were you coached by Mike Johnson? If so, say so. Do you have any experience with him personally. If you have a problem with a certain individual, be man or woman enough to say it yourself. Every entity on this thread posting anonymous slander is a mindless coward (and every other thread, including those bashing other runners anonymously.)
And yes, Yikes, I?ll repeat for you, ?The principal parties who need to know the answer to that question at this time, know it." Don?t be offended simply because you aren?t one of those parties.
Speculate all you want. I will respect the processes and protocol used by both Oregon State University and Western Oregon.
Ludacris. Guidelines # 4.
Daniel Bell
Daniel Bell,
Why do you think I left Boise State?
Daniel Bell wrote: "Four years right?"
This does not constitute a sentence, almight dictionary and encyclopedia producer. Please do not try and act almighty or I will point out more grammatical errors in your posts. Do not confuse typing errors with a person's intelligence level.
I feel sorry for you, promoting your obscure books on this website because they are not selling.
Daniel Bell wrote: "waste a coaches' time"
The proper spelling is COACH'S time. I do not know what "a coaches" is, in fact, could you clarify this for us, Mr. Bell.
If your publications are thus riddled with such errors, I fear to be your publicist. How was the education at Washington, or did you major in steeplechasing?
Dan Bell,
You arrogantly wrote: "Hmmm, I missed the 48% off on Nike Watches, Discount prices on discus, shots, javelins, training gear and more. Huge Selection. Low Prices. Secure. Running, Walking & More at the top and bottom of each page. Nice Logic, ?Yikes.? Go to the head of the class."
Your genius mind has mistaken "Forum" for "Website". The website certainly does have advertising on it...that is how they pay the bill to host the website. However, the FORUM, which is completely different, is not to have advertising flying around. Newsflash, different words have different meanings and different pages of a web site have different rules. Besides, the creators and hosts of a web site have a right to do whatever they must to keep it going. That doesn't mean every Tom, Dick or Dan with a trinket to sell should be able to innundate the forum with their thinly vailed sales pitches.
Second, and I'm sure this will test the limits of your impressive brain power, I did not call Mike Johnson a sewer rat, at least not yet. I asked a question about future actions that would then allow him to earn that label. But I'm probably being too hard on you. Love is blind and you have apparently been blinded to the facts in your Mike Johnson lovefest.
Third, there is no need to be cryptic. Your answer about whether Mike Johnson would bolt on WOU, while mysterious and arrogant, was pretty clear. If he was a man of character, and you believed that, you would just flat out say he made a committment to WOU and he is going to stand behind that committment. But you can't say that. It's like the "no comment" answer. It's an answer all the same and everyone knows.
My question is why would you come on here, the only person apparently willing to praise MJ, go on and on about how he is the greatest human on earth, when you can't make a simple positive statement regarding his character (with regard to WOU. I didn't want you to get too confused with the English language here).
Lastly, you dispute the concept that Mike Johnson was ever fired. I don't know about the last three positions he had, but he was certainly fired from Boise State (or maybe forced to resign, same thing). At UW he may not have technically been fired. Instead they removed him from all coaching duties and gave him some bizarre administrative position that did nothing until he became so frustrated and bored he left on his own. They certainly didn't want him coaching there anymore and it wasn't his choice to stop coaching. Twist words anyway you want, but MJ was removed from coaching from his last two positions.
Now I cannot dispute that his coaching style worked for you. There are always a few people that like any style or coach. But it would appear that the overwhelming opinion of most is that his style of coaching is not good. It is not common to get removed from coaching at your last two major coaching positions. Good for you that you like Mike. It's nice that you can come on here and defend your hero. But maybe you should realize that you may just be the minority. Maybe he was a great coach for you and a bad coach for most other people. Or maybe he was a great coach for male steeplechasers, but not for other athletes. Or maybe he was a great coach early on and then became kinda strange, arrogant and creepy. I know I'm stretching your brain with that. And I'm sure the bloodpressure is rising and the "no, no, stop it, Mike Johnson is the greatest" is clouding any ability to look at this logically. But I thought I would throw it out there.
.
Wow. This is a rather hostile thread. Its been fun to read.
Dan. There are so many things wrong with the last couple of posts...I highly doubt that the first post from 'Ludacris' was actually the same guy that posted as 'Ludacris (VL)'...which I highly, highly doubt was Vin Lannana.
Man, I think this thread needs to be put to rest for the wellbeing of all the parties involved.
Peace.
Dan wrote:
?Truth?, You hold me in far too high esteem. Not only that you?re a freaking mathematical, historical and legal genius. Fired from Boise State? (Prove it.)= ?Fired from his three previous D-1 jobs?? Playing very loose with the "facts" aren?t we? Provide factual evidence that he was ?fired from his three previous D-1 jobs.? You weren?t seeking information, you were slandering. They'd have to use angstroms to measure your testicular fortitude.
Truth wrote, well will write:
Dan,
I actually do not hold you in high esteem. That being said, thanks for the compliment. I actually am a "freaking mathematical, historical and legal genius". If only more people knew the truth.....and by the way, my stones are doing just fine. Regarding your weak "slandering" argument, the truth speaks for itself. FIRED is FIRED. Dumbass.
Grammatical Checker/Error Finder. Yes, you are right. Fair is fair. If people are going to come into a forum like this and criticize the spelling in another post, they?d certainly better be willing to have their posts corrected. Don?t give it if you can?t take it. I stand corrected.
I would have let those spelling errors go had it not been for someone making a pathetic attempt at impersonating someone clearly more educated.
You seem to be selective, however, with your masterful editing skills. This sentence, ?This does not constitute a sentence, almight dictionary?,? was written by none other than you, attempting to be almighty and correct someone else. (My sentence was simple dialogue. No problem, get over it.) With smooth skills like that I don?t need to concern myself that you?ll ever become my publicist, or publisher, or whatever you were trying to say.
Since all you seem to want to do is edit, as opposed to contribute to the discussion I trust you?ll be unbiased in sending a kind note to ?Yikes? offering assistance with spelling the words, ?innundate? ?vailed? and ?committment?.
It?s clear that you do not understand the processes and teamwork involved in getting a book from a draft form, to a manuscript, to a galley, to a final product, and the steps in between. No writer goes it alone. Every writer needs to have someone look at what has been written, and it takes many people to make a project work.
Thanks for the concern over the sales of the book. It isn?t necessary. The book was published in April, and both my publisher and I are very happy with the results to date and will be preparing soon to go into a second printing. The book was a labor of love (there I go, getting all Hallmark again) but the paychecks are nice icing. Considering the bills are paid from other sources, it?s very nice. Being invited last spring to speak in Australia on the topic, and being recognized as the foremost authority on the histories of international multi-sport games is also nice. I?m very proud of the work that has been done, and of the contribution that it makes to history, to sport and to academic study. ?It ain?t bragging if you can do it.?
Yikes! You brought the first mention of peddling into the discussion. (Should we also remove your original post, with the Hallmark mention. Advertising. Scary.) Then you wrote ??.selling this or that on a discussion form. Like we all don?t get enough SPAM in the e-mail box.? So, you can attempt to make some spurious connection between a comment in a discussion forum, and an email inbox, and somehow those connect, yet I make a comment about the content on the same page, the same URL, and those are not connected.
Now that we?ve taken care of the preliminaries, back to the business at hand.
Abby, (or impersonator of Abby) I don?t know you or your situation. My understanding, however, is that Mike continued to coach you for some time after you left Boise State. Please feel free to elaborate.
Yikes! Your blind-hatred has evidently rendered you incapable of reading. Show me, and everyone else, any evidence of where I stated Mike Johnson is ?the greatest human being on earth.? Don?t even dare attempt to twist my words like that.
I did say that he was the best thing to ever happen to me at the University of Washington, not ?greatest human being on earth.? To place that in context, suffice it to say that things were not good with the coaching environment that was in place, for me personally (and for several others, but I will let them speak for themselves) from 1983 to the end of 1985.
As for heroes, I?m well beyond the stage of placing any human being on that level.
As far as being the ?only one? to support Mike Johnson, again, you choose selective blindness. And, lest we forget, the challenge, or dare, was to simply find one athlete that would say Mike Johnson was a good coach. That challenge was quickly met. Others can give an opinion of their own, positive or negative. I don?t know how valid, or verified it will be if it is anonymous, but cowards will be cowards.
I made the objective statements very early in my original post, that no matter what my experiences with Mike Johnson, that I understood that certainly not everyone has shared the opinion that I gave. That was fair. I also shared my opinions relating to my experiences. I noted that I have had my differences of opinion with him. Those differences of opinion have sometimes been related to dialogue and sometimes to methods. I also noted that some coaches have accomplished more that Mike Johnson, some less.
Mike Johnson does bear some portion of the responsibility for the way that the Washington situation and the Boise State situations were handled. But to place the greatest part of the responsibility on him is to show substantial ignorance of those situations. I guess actually doing a good job was far more important that keeping his job.
?Yikes? you begin to show some reasoning capacity, when you make the statements ?Maybe he was a great coach for you and a bad coach for most other people. Or maybe he was a great coach for male steeplechasers, but not for other athletes. Or maybe he was a great coach early on and then became kinda strange, arrogant and creepy.?
You have every single right to posit those remarks into the discussion. I?m sure some people would agree, but no one in this forum has posted verifiable remarks to that effect.
The same with your remarks, ?Now I cannot dispute that his coaching style worked for you. There are always a few people that like any style or coach. But it would appear that the overwhelming opinion of most is that his style of coaching is not good."
You clearly want to make some attempt to be a spokesperson for some supposed large group of people. Speak for yourself. I know many people that disliked Mike?s style and had gripes with his coaching. I simply don?t think it is that admirable to come into some anonymous forum and begin to spread rumors and hearsay. I also know, and I will let those people speak for themselves, many people who were very puzzled and frustrated over the decisions made at the University of Washington to not continue with Mike Johnson as head of the program. The team was more successful than it had been in quite some time with Mike as director.
Who else is going to have the guts to come in here and defend anyone knowing there is the potential to have others anonymously attempt to rip them to shreds. I?m clearly not afraid of that.
I?ll re-emphasize that there were certain things that were so messed up in those programs that, something had to give. There were a lot of people putting roadblocks in the way of what Mike Johnson wanted to do, and in the way of many of his athletes. I know that for an absolute fact, because I was there, and lived it and saw it. I was in the program as an athlete with Mike Johnson as distance coach from January 1986 until June 1988, and was close to the program, including a small amount of volunteer coaching, during the four years after that. I can make fewer claims to things that may have happened in the ensuing years after that time.
Yikes! You wrote, ?Is that a cryptic way of saying Mike Johnson has (present tense) the character of a sewer rat and will be slithering over to OSU.? Then you attempt to wrangle out of it by saying, that you ?asked a question about future actions.? Again, you seem to ride the razors edge with your interpretations. Pardon me, you didn?t say, ?Mike Johnson is a sewer rat,? you said, ?Mike Johnson has the character of a sewer rat,? but again, in present tense.
You have the audacity to make this a question of character, when you don?t even have the character to sign your name to your remarks. I for one respect the opinion of a person who is actually willing to stand up and put their name behind their statements as opposed to someone who lacks that courage. You can only hope that if you ever have the good fortune to be well known enough that someone attempts to drag your name through the mud, someone else will stand up for you.
You must not live in the modern world ?Yikes!? to know that if circumstances change in coaching, especially at the college level, that coaches, in any sport, will change positions given the opportunity. BIG DEAL. Where have you been the past ten years? The circumstances surrounding the Oregon State position are extremely unique. If a coach makes some sort of public declaration, ?I?ll be here until I retire, I promise,? and then backs out on that, then you have a different set of circumstances. There have been no such proclamations in this case.
But take Mike Johnson out of the equation. If any coach, currently employed in any length term of contract, applies for the position, will you hold them to the same rigor that you are attempting to hold Mike Johnson? (That is if he is even considering the position at all, and you haven?t presented factual data to know. I?ll hold my information in the confidence that it deserves.) You probably would hold others to a different standard, because of your obvious bias against the man. I?ll admit my bias, I made that perfectly clear in the first post, based on my experiences with him. You still want to hide behind your anonymity.
You attempt to reason a bit more when you write regarding the situation at Boise State that he was fired ?or maybe forced to resign.? I disagree with you that it would be the same thing.
You are so clear on the definition of web page, forum and email, but when it comes to words such as, fired, resign, forced to quit and quit, you seem to lose focus.
Simply put, the circumstances surrounding these types of situations, and what the public sees and hears and concludes, is very rarely, if ever, the true story. That is what happened in both these cases. When one party takes the high road, and decides not to drag the second party through the mud, it leaves itself open to having it drug through the mud.
There has been a very small, but very active group, out of professional jealousy, incompetence and because they got caught doing things they should not have, who have made a concerted effort to undermine the work that Mike Johnson has done. But, the high road is to leave these matters as private matters, as they should be.
The principal parties know and understand the situation that does exist and has existed with the status of the Oregon State program, and how that situation relates to other programs. ?Yikes!,? you clearly do not understand even the most rudimentary of hiring practices, and what can or should be made available to the public and when. In short, it?s none of your business.
?Truth? (why is it that any time someone chooses the moniker truth, they immediately begin to lie.)
?Truth?, try this simple exercise. Hold your hand open about 18 inches from your face. Start with your thumb, that?s one. The next finger over, that?s two. The next finger over, is three. That?s all you need to solve your problem.
Now, go find factual, concrete data that proves your original statement about ?three D-1 programs.? You can?t do it.
Your anonymity is because you are ashamed of who you are, what you?ve done, and what you stand for, and your lack of ability to produce any form of cogent, reasoned argument.
If you are going to try and insult me, please bring something a lot stronger to the table than the tired old clichés of ?knee-pads? and ?coming up for air.? Come on, bring it on, dude. The microscopic dimensions, not the health of your stones, was the question.
You greatly confuse the activity of ass-kissing, with ass-kicking. Of the two, my involvement has been exclusively with the latter.
I?ll go back to my other ?one-dimensional life?, writing articles, preparing presentations, coaching, radio interviews, write some for my website, researching for a couple of book projects, work my regular job and then go for a run.
No one has disputed the coaching record that Mike Johnson has been able to produce, and been able to say that Mike Johnson has not been able to organize programs, produce champion teams and champion runners.
Chachi is probably right. I think everyone should go and watch Seabiscuit this weekend. Listen carefully in the movie, there are a few lines that apply to this situation under discussion. (Ooops. There I go advertising again.)
This is the full extent I have to say on the matter. If anyone would like to contact me (perhaps I don?t know the full story, perhaps I need to be enlightened on some aspects of it, I?m open to reasonable arguments, and the presentation of facts), please feel free to contact me at
. If you?d prefer to talk on the phone, send me an email and we will exchange the necessary information.
And ?Yikes!,? if you have $75 bucks, there?s a book I know you?d enjoy.
Daniel Bell
Daniel Bell,
I am just holding you to your own standards on this statement: "and being recognized as the foremost authority on the histories of international multi-sport games is also nice."
What concrete evidence do you have for this claim, because I would beg to differ.
I can't believe they still offer that guy jobs in the Northwest.
He did start the WCC championship streak at Portland (22 straight) but my grandma could have coached a XC team to the WCC title, and she is primarily a shot and disc specialist.
I once saw him on a video produced by the NCAA talking about eating disorders in distance running and wrestling. It was one of those manadatory videos you watch when you are a freshman athlete and you're thinking to yourself why the f*** do I have to watch this.