Protein

Hey Tex, you have eating issues, please don't lecture us on food. Being a "vegetarian" is just one of the tools that you use to enable your problems.

For each person the first step on the road to recovery is acceptance.

Also, I don't know this for a fact, but I don't think that there are too many hemp running shoes out there, so you obviously don't have an issue wearing slaughtered animals nor do you have an issue with exploiting children to produce said shoes.

I wear Mizuno Wave Riders, made of SYNTHETIC leather and mesh.

There are A LOT of running shoes out there made of synthetic leather. In fact, Saucony makes mostly synthetic shoes and was recently voted by PETA the most animal friendly athletic shoe company. http://www.petakids.com/cowsarecool.html

It's OK. I was just trying to explain myself better & I can see how the thread could easily have been misinterpreted.

I agree it's easy to get carbs. For example, I have toast with honey and a banana often for breakfast and there are lots of carbs in there, but I guess not much else.

I find BMI quite helpful, but then I think the category cut offs are quite accurate for my height. For someone who is very short or very muscular I think that could be different.

try peanut butter on your toast, that will give you about 10g of proten right there.

Bootsie, you rock--keep fighting the fight. I'm right there with you.

It's very easy to get a plentiful amount of protein, carbohydrates, vitamins, minerals, and even great taste on a vegetarian or vegan diet. There are cookbooks out there if you're not sure where to start, but as long as you vary your protein sources, your carb sources, don't rely too much on dairy, and avoid the bad stuff (lots of sugars, salts, oils, etc) you'll be just fine.

I've been running a very restricted number of miles over the last few years (stupid PF), and the one thing that has helped me stay super thin is my vegetarian diet.

and ps--to Bootsie I hate you, tofurkey DOES taste great, put it on some good crunchy bread with dijon, lettuce and tomato, or even some sprouts and avocado, and you've got a great start to lunch.

I am planning to market "Meat-ables" the exact opposite of tofurkey, it is meat made into the shape of vegetables!

Texas, you really don't need to be commenting here about what you eat, as has been mentioned before, you have eating issues which have resulted in your own health problems. Please do not post here about "healthy eating" until you have slain your own dragons.

I agree, Tofurkey is delicious (and this comes from a very picky person, especially when it comes to artificial meats).

damn I hate hippies

This is true (to a much lesser degree than you describe) if you're a lab rat who is fed massive amounts of only tofu or you're a young child. In adult males, testosterone has been found to be unaffected by tofu intake. There is not a significant correlation between testosterone and tofu intake in adult males; there is not even an *insignificant* correlation.

Eat some low fat red meat. Gives you lots of iron. You may be anemic too. At least take an iron supplement. But you definitely need more protein. Use both animal and plant sources. Animal proteins are complete proteins with all the amino acids. Just watch the fat.

Where do you get your information from?

You should never suggest red meat (whether it's low fat or not) as a protein source. There is no benefit to eating red meat over other light, white meat choices. There is just as much iron in other meats, and especially in broccoli and spinach.

Also, soy and quinoa are two plant sources that have all complete amino acids. The two amino acids that aren't very common in vegetable sources are lysine and tryptophan, but these are very abundant in soy and quinoa.

You are incorrect about white meat having more iron than red meat.I get my info from my husband, who is a medical Dr. Beef has more iron than poultry. A 3 oz serving of round steak has about 4.6 mg of iron. A 3 oz serving of chicken breast has about .9 mg. of iron. Females age 19-50 need about 18 mg. per day. Animal sources of iron are heme, vs. non-animal sources called non-heme. Heme iron is better absorbed by the body than non-heme.

chickpea wrote:

Where do you get your information from?

You should never suggest red meat (whether it's low fat or not) as a protein source. There is no benefit to eating red meat over other light, white meat choices. There is just as much iron in other meats, and especially in broccoli and spinach.

Also, soy and quinoa are two plant sources that have all complete amino acids. The two amino acids that aren't very common in vegetable sources are lysine and tryptophan, but these are very abundant in soy and quinoa.

Yay for Vegans. Bootsies, you rock. Check out the PETA website if you don't understand. I am very happy with my times and where I have been placing on the running scene this season. You can get plenty of protein from a vegan diet and you feel better, too! But seriously check out the PETA website and watch their videos.

I respect all that the likes of "Bootsie" and "Bootsie I Hate You" have to say - To each his own, you know?

There have been a handful of times that I've considered going vegan myself. Not so much for the reported health benefits, but because of the animal rights aspect.

But two things always hold me back:

1. I would miss cookouts. Throwing a veggie kabob or veggie burger on the grill just isn't the same as charring up some blackened chicken or firing up a big juicy steak.

2. I'm a huge baseball fan, and there is no way I'm going to the ballpark without having a couple of dogs with my beer.

chickpea wrote:

Where do you get your information from?

You should never suggest red meat (whether it's low fat or not) as a protein source. There is no benefit to eating red meat over other light, white meat choices. There is just as much iron in other meats, and especially in broccoli and spinach.

Also, soy and quinoa are two plant sources that have all complete amino acids. The two amino acids that aren't very common in vegetable sources are lysine and tryptophan, but these are very abundant in soy and quinoa.

Darker meat IS better because it's more oxidative, meaning greater mitochondrial content, capillarization, myoglobin, and therefore greater blood flow/oxygen AND Heme iron content (~hence the color... slow twitch fibers!). The chicken legs are greater in iron content than the chicken breast (~leg muscle fibers intended to resist fatigue). The darker the meat, the greater the iron content (~beef). The same applies to beans.... black beans are richer in non-heme iron than red beans or other lighter beans. Chicken's/turkey's are bipedal and are therefore closer on the phylogeny tree (closer protein makeup to humans).

Regarding the most limiting amino acids in plant foods, it's lysine and methionine. Vit. C and the endogenous acid produced by meat protein will help increase non-heme iron absorption when taken together, but they are still less than ideal as compared to heme iron (~which has a shorter metabolic pathway). Furthermore, as I previously mentioned, vegans have lower serum IGF-1, which is needed for maintenance and repair of muscle/bone.

Lastly, our biological machinery was genetically fixed in paleolithic times when 35% of our ancestor's diet was meat and 65% plant foods. Just as it is wrong, in terms of OUR health, to eat a diet with more protein from meat than plant foods (~modern diet), it is also wrong for us to eat a diet with 100% of our protein from plant sources. Both 'extremes' are mismatched with our genetic design and will have consequences to our health.

But beer is bad for people too... you stated earlier in this thread or another that you will rock back 6-7 beers to wash down "boca chunks" and "soy riblets" or whatever the hell it is you eat. Beer can cause cancer, obesity, harms the liver, causes people to make rash judgments, car accidents, depression, relationship strain, not mention cirrhosis. If it causes all these negative side effects, well you must be a terrible person for consuming it. I don't really know the specifics and I don't care, but really think about all the other people you could feed if you diverted the grain necessary to produce 24.5 Billion liters of beer Americans consume in a given year. Is prohibition a good idea? Does it give someone in favor of banning alcohol the right to come on the boards and spout their opinions... well yes... does it make it any less obnoxious? No. As far as animals having feelings? It's a freaking chicken man. Do I advocate caging and injecting them with hormones? no, but by the same token I'm not going to feel bad when it is slaughtered. As far as intelligent, compassionate people being duped into eating KFC. It'd called being an adult and making your own choices. Nobody thinks of KFC as a health food. Everyone knows it's bad for you however most people just don't care. KFC is not tricking anyone, they are simply fulfilling the demand. People eat it because it tastes good and that's their prerogative, not yours.

I don't know about you but

a nice fat salmon steak>boca crumbles everytime

i'll try to address your post point by point.

1) i prefer whiskey to beer, and yes, i like to drink a pretty good amount, which is probably not great for me, but i don't drive drunk, get into fights, leave my credit card at bars, vomit in public, lose a shoe, and i always make it to work on time. and my girlfriend (who's also vegan) can drink me under the table (irish/native american), so there's no relationship strain. grains for booze is a pretty efficient process, and it is a part of my caloric consumption, so it's not really wasteful. 25 pounds of wheat and a couple thousands of gallons of water for 1 pound of meat is.

2) i'm not in favor of banning anything. prohibition is ludicrous. you're free to eat whatever you want. but i don't think it's unreasonable to want basic minimum standards of welfare for animals on factory farms and slaughterhouses. and keep in mind that there are NO laws regarding welfare for the 8-9 billion chickens that are slaughtered in this country every year. chickens are roughly intelligent as cats, and can certainly feel pain and suffer in the same way as cats.... yet they don't have any basic welfare protection under the law. that is wrong, no?

3) you say that you don't "advocate caging and injecting them with hormones," but when you buy them and eat them, you are doing just that. it's one thing to say "that's wrong," but if you actually believe it's wrong, f-ing DO something about it. stop buying them, or buy cage-free/hormone free. something is better than nothing. to make that kind of statement but still practice what you are against is hypocritical as f*ck. that's like saying you are in favor of liberty and equality and then going and voting for bush.

4) you're right, it's people's own prerogative what they eat. i'm not telling anyone they "can't" eat something. and if they want to poison themselves by eating kfc, go right ahead. they may know that it's not health food, but they probably don't know that 99 percent of all chickens sold in this country have traces of e.coli and salmonella on them.... which can be deadly. do you actually trust that the minimum wage, i-could-give-a-f*ck about my job kfc workers care whether it gets cooked right? there's actually a website called

or something like that. worth a look. what i'm advocating is learning all the facts so that you can make an educated choice as a consumer. i realize you think i'm an asshole for standing on my little vegan platform, but come ON man.... is it worse than the kind of crap that major corporations force down your throat through faulty advertising? at least i'm telling the truth... to wit:

a: a meat-centered diet is less healthy than a balanced vegan diet

b: a meat-centered diet inflicts significantly more environmental damage than a vegan diet

c: a meat-centered diet supports industries that routinely inflict pain, suffering, and cruelty to animals who have the same capacity for feeling and suffering, and have similar intelligence levels as cats and dogs.

hate me if you will.... call me names..... but the one thing you can't do is prove me wrong on any of those points. so deal with is.

I've given her a few protein shakes! hahaha