Teen who wants to wear anti-gay T-shirt takes battle to court

well if you don't like gays just ignore them and don't go near them (like me).

she's probably going to lose the case. not saying whether she should, or should not, only that she probably will.

here's the case precedent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District

Um, this is a running forum on a running site.

dont see the problem. shouldnt be shoved down her throat

rubbing it in your face wrote:

she's probably going to lose the case. not saying whether she should, or should not, only that she probably will.

here's the case precedent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District

I'm not so sure the Tinker test even applies here. I would think that a not-blatantly-offensive slogan or statement on a t-shirt would likely be defended as free speech. If the district is going to ban her shirt, then it would seem all monograms or lettering would be banned.

I'm all for free speech, though if she were wore a shirt that said, "Be happy, not black" and had a "true religious conviction that happiness/salvation cannot be found in black people" that they wouldn't have gotten this far. Actually, that would have fallen in line with Mormon teachings up until 1978.

If this is allowed to go on, I hope allow 'Bong Hits for Jesus' to continue.

what's being shoved down her throat? sounds like she's the one doing the shoving.

I'm thinking "Tinker" would be to her advantage.

Tuone Udaina wrote:

I'm all for free speech, though if she were wore a shirt that said, "Be happy, not black" and had a "true religious conviction that happiness/salvation cannot be found in black people" that they wouldn't have gotten this far. Actually, that would have fallen in line with Mormon teachings up until 1978.

Tuone Udaina, I was just about to post something like that. I'm glad to see that are back to being dead-on after those posts on the "300" thread.

If someone wore an anti-Christian T-shirt to school, even if it limited itslef to Christian beliefs, the Christians would be the first ones crying victim and persecution. I have a t-shirt that says "Jesus Saves" and it has a Jesus holding a piggy banking and placing a shekel in it. If I wore that to school on t-Shirt days, I would be told to remove it. And I am happy not to wear it despite having religion shoved down my throat with "moments of silence" and organized prayers at faculty functions. My kids also can't wear T-shirts expressing their belief in "pimpin'" or other ghetto nonsense, so why shouldn't we be able to regulate religious-based nonsense?

Religious beliefs don't deserve protection from ridicule. I am unsure why we think they do. They deserve no more or less protection than any other beliefs deserve. Calling such beliefs religious doesn't grant them a veil of immunity from the rules that govern civil society.

traxor wrote:

dont see the problem. shouldnt be shoved down her throat

Really? And what about HER free speech rights people like you are always bitching about?!

She has every right to wear that. I hope others will follow suit.

Furthermore, since when do we think that teenagers have "beliefs" that deserve respecting. My teenagers believe alot of wrong things and Christians must continually fall back on the same relativistic thinking that is characteristic of the PC left so that we will continue to respect beliefs based on absolutely no evidence. My kids can't wear shirts to school indicating belief in drugs, in ghetto values, etc. I am unsure what the rationale for restricting speech in those areas is while religion is off limits. These are kids, they don't have free speech rights any more than they have the right at school to look at whatever websites they wish to. Should a Muslim kid be allowed to wear shirts supportive of terrorism or indicating the inferiority of infidels or women?

Conservatives used to tell liberals to "love it or leave it". Well, we live in a secular society with secular public values. If you don't like that, move to Iran or Saudi Arabia to be among your fellow nuts.

"Because of her family's "sincerely held religious beliefs" against homosexuality, "they wish to share their conviction that true happiness cannot be found through homosexual behavior," the suit says."

Here is another fine example of "sincerely held religious beliefs". People can hold beliefs as sincerely as they wish, but calling them religious doesn't give them special protection. They must have REASONS and EVIDENCE, just like every other belief is required to muster. My tolerance for this special rights nonsense about religion ended about 6 years ago.

Being black and being gay are different things. You can correct gayness. You can't correct blackness.

Well, comparing "Be Happy, Not Gay" to "Be Happy, Not Black" is just silly.

I imagine she will win because that shirt isn't overly offensive. If it said, "I hate gays" or something harsher then that'd cause a distraction, which seems to be the threshold in a lot of these cases.

I don't see exactly why someone would do this. The school really shouldn't condone/condemn homosexuality either way but if this girl finds it offensive she ought to either not come to school or complain to the school board. A shirt does nothing. No one is going to change their minds over some simple shirt logo.

its not nice and not cool. giving this protest attention is throwing fuel on the fire. the gay people i know ignore things like that and talk about real things like finger nails and hair-do's.

Well thought out argument Brian. I think you bring up good points and maybe the problem is when beliefs turn into actions against others it is something that no longer merely exists as a belief. That I have issues with, but one thing that seems to be troubling on all sides is where is the forum for discussion about anything? The truth is those with religious beliefs about homosexuality don't really discuss it or really try to undertstand it. So they get no where with it and ridicule it.

Those that are homosexual and believe they must actively promote it seem to turn a blind eye about how they feel about zealots and other factions of society shoving their ideas down their throats.

There is just no room for discussion anymore. I would disagree about the race comment...I think that with these two ideas, religion and homosexuality, it appears that both are choices or are at least deemed that way. When it comes to race, that would be putting someone down for something that is not in their control at all (maybe Michael Jackson would disagree here). Who knows though.

I just hate to see the world we all live in always having to go to a courtroom to feel vindicated or to present arguments in a fashion that the other side does hear them. I can only imagine in from both parties how stubborn and hardheaded each is about their respective arguments...never really getting to the point of understand one thing that both so aggressively want. THINK WHAT YOU WANT, but don't impose your thoughts on others so much that they can't live their lives. It would be nice to hear someone say...hey I don't agree with a homosexual or religious lifestyle but I respect both of these as OTHERS RIGHT TO CHOOSE, leave it at that, and still be able to work with one another in a constructive way.

So getting back to the running forum....that is what team running is about. We all want to win the race, but for things like XC, we have to work together to do it. (for all those people who want a running message too)

"Being black and being gay are different things. You can correct gayness. You can't correct blackness."

Gayness is not "incorrect". The only reason to think so is if you imagine that God spoke to a bunch of superstitious folks in ancient times who didn't even have an accurate conception of how the earth and the universe worked and that ignorance is reflected in their "god-inspired" writings. If the only reason you can give for opposing something is because "God says so" then your point of view is irrelevant to public decision making. I don't trust that God spoke to Paul or any biblical writers, particularly given the obvious textual evidence against it, any more than he spoke to Mohammed or Joseph Smith. WE CANNOT BASE OUR BELIEFS ON SUCH FLIMSY CRAP!!

I am unclear how being gay hurts anyone or has any negative societal ramifications. Euroope has jettisoned these nonsense religious beliefs apart from the loony Muslims they have mistakenly allowed to dictate to their secular cultures and it has caused them no harm and despite the hordes of Muslims in Europe, Europe still has better measures of social well-being than the US. Fewer violent crimes, fewer teen pregnancies, etc. etc.