which branch has the best WCAP?

thanks for the replies guys.

in terms of both WCAP and all-army/AF (what is the actual name of the AF "sub-elite"?) do they care if you are more of a middle-distance runner? most the talk seems to be about xc championships and 10mile road races.

There is also an Armed Forces Championships for Track and Field. If you do well there you can get selected to CISM (World Military Games). Every four years there is a CISM for Track and Field. It has been in some pretty cool places recently: Sicily, Croatia etc. Each service might heve different selection criteria but you definitely don't have to be on a WCAP team to make a CISM team. Paul McMullen ran the 1500 at the last CISM for the Coast Guard. He would be a good guy to talk to. Someone on here might have his email. I haven't talked to him in a while.

This past year the Army did not support a CISM track and Field team. So right now the opportunities for sub-elite are the annual Army 10 Miler, the Marine Corps marathon aka Armed Forces champs, and the USATF X-C champs. You will run in All Army gear for each of these events. The standards for the All Army track team are still out there someplace on the Army MWR web site. I think they were 31:00, 14:45, and mid 3:5ish for males. They were supposed to be recent too. Of course EVERYTHING is waiverable in the Army so don't let that stop you.

Most of the time the only sub elites who have those kinds of times are guys right out of college. After that first year though,most people's times slow. Being a full time Soldier tends to mean less opotunities/time for hard speed workouts. Hence long runs make up a good portion of training and so the service gears it's competion toward the 10 miler/ marathon.

Dan.

A couple of questions for you:

When is the next CISM (Track and Field) and where will it be held?

Will the US send a team?

Does the USMC Marathon serve as the qualifier for the Marathon spots on the US CISM team?

bump

This is a better site for info in terms of being updated.

When is the next CISM (Track and Field) and where will it be held? check the web site

Will the US send a team? not sure (depends on what country and budget I would guess)

Does the USMC Marathon serve as the qualifier for the Marathon spots on the US CISM team? Again, I am not sure, the best bet is to contact the folks at armed forces sports or the MWR sports people.

sorry I could not be of more help. let me know what you find out.

Wow. Hyderabad and Mumbai, India in October 2007. Pretty cool.

In all the years I ran on the All Army Marathon Team. The USMC never really served as a qualifier. (and if I recall there was not a CISM, but more of a Military World Championships every 4 years) Lot's of reasons, some I tend to believe were politics between a couple of the service reps. In the end, for the two times they had a CISM/WC Marathon they selected the team based upon resume submittal.

Gary, thanks for the input, great job at Boulder! wish I could have made it.

danwelsh wrote:

Gary, thanks for the input, great job at Boulder! wish I could have made it.

Thanks, I was lucky, us old farts got to run when the course was still frozen, the open race was, as you know, run when the course was very sloppy. Shannon and the boys were hating life. Maybe we'll see you at the Army Ten Miler!

Gary, I thought you retired man? Is there a veteran section of the Army 10 miler?

GaryB wrote:

danwelsh wrote:

Gary, thanks for the input, great job at Boulder! wish I could have made it.

Thanks, I was lucky, us old farts got to run when the course was still frozen, the open race was, as you know, run when the course was very sloppy. Shannon and the boys were hating life. Maybe we'll see you at the Army Ten Miler!

Not to be a downer, but if you are considering the Army's WCAP keep in mind that a WCAP bobsledder recently died in Iraq. After his committment to the Army was up he got out and was called back on IRR and killed shortly after while deployed.

So, if you are still thinking of Army WCAP please know that it's not all fun and run.

Gary, it's good to see you're still kicking around.

For the guy who asked the original question, there is a lot of good information in this thread. I may be biased, but in my experience, I preferred the Air Force experience. Hopefully, there will be funding and powerful allies who can keep these programs going. I think they are key to continued American distance development. A lot of great athletes have been able to keep competing-Dan Brown, Jason Stewart, Jeff Kuzma, Eric Mack, Ryan Kirkpatrick and the ageless Sandu.

There are advantages to both programs. The Army program opens the program 3 years out from the Olympic Trials. The Air Force, as mentioned before, gives athletes the ability to train where they want to, based on coaching, training groups, etc.

Another difference; the Air Force does not recruit people from outside the Air Force to be in their WCAP. Any athlete is eligible if they are active duty or in the guard or reserves. For running, that usually means running under the USATF standard for your event.

The Army does recruit "outsiders" to be part of the program. If you are not already in the service, or want to be in the service, then it's probably not a good idea to enlist, because of WCAP.

For the younger guys, and even some of the older guys; I would advocate taking advantage of any racing opportunity the Armed Forces give you. CISM races and Armed Forces Championships are great experiences you'll meet a lot of great people, and Gary.

Nick MacFalls wrote:

Gary, it's good to see you're still kicking around.

Nick, just trying to stay young and refusing to stop participating in this sport! Your comments about CISM and Armed Forces is spot on. I've made life long friends because of this. Hell, I met my current boss at Armed Forces Cross Country in 1999, (a then 2nd LT Bob Dickie).

Golf in November wrote:

Gary, I thought you retired man? Is there a veteran section of the Army 10 miler?

Golf, I am retired, 2 years now. I just can't stop going to Army Ten Miler, it's in my blood now! ( haven't missed a year since 1988). I was in Boulder to run the Masters race, but I also coach a young man from NY and he ran the JR race. Speaking of the Army Ten Miler though, I am putting together of Masters Men's Team, and have some decent old farts looking forward to running.

funny how 9 years ago it seemed air force was the way to go and now no one even knows if anyone competes for the Air Force but we sure as hell know who the Army runners are

The merchant marines move pretty well.