70s?

I guess you missed this. There were some days were this would have been TOD if it had existed.....

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1625936&page=0

I'll take a clean Jeff Nelson over Grimsley any day.

(except for Webb of course)

jeff nelson? wrote:

8:36 2 mile in hs

what happened to him anyway?

oh and why were all the good times in the 1970's

4 minutes miler and fast 2miles-many were in the 70's

http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/nats/gods.htmhttp://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/HighSchool/HSLists.htm

did they train differently or what?

All the sub 4 hs guys were from the 60s (prior to Webb)

Results - 12/9/06 Masters XC Club Natuionals

Masters Men 45-49

1 3 1031 Peter Magill 45 South Pasadena CA 32:52

2 12 376 Todd Coffin 45 Freeport ME 33:41

3 14 1033 David Olds 45 Los Angeles CA 33:45

4 16 110 Ivan Huff 47 Paso Robles CA 33:48

5 20 485 David O'Keeffe 48 Orchard Park NY 34:02

6 23 1034 Tony Reyes 45 Chino CA 34:08

7 24 248 Jeffrey Adkins 45 Granite Bay CA 34:14

8 34 514 Robert Winn 48 Acton MA 34:54

9 36 464 David Watkins 45 Birmingham MI 34:59

10 39 1032 Jeff Nelson 45 Valencia CA 35:03

They trained differently and perhaps more importantly they weren't softened up by the lazy-impatient-obsessed w/ instant gratification plague that has taken over the American society these last 25+ years.

These guys were fearless and trained their ass off year round with "crap" shoes and 100% cotton. Yeah... they were different.

I think today's kids have just as much potential and they are proving that. But, I really think the problem is:

1. Too much to do. It is not good enough to just be a teenager, go to school and do your sport and go home. Now, much more is expected out of kids.

2. It is more difficult to find kids who are willing to push to the limits. First, they grow up being "nurtured" and filled with crazy notions that lift their self-esteem for doing nothing.

3. I also think that the fact that mothers, with no athletic background are more involved in their children's lives. I find that the mothers who are athletic are more willing to allow their kids to train hard and not be babied by the coach (me). Unathletic mothers do't think their kids should push and always question why we have practice when it's too hot, cold, rainy, etc.'

That said, it looks like things are getting better.

Read the old thread blaming Salazar and Dellinger. Good times.

As far as today's kids I guess you just missed that whole Ryan Hall mania, which was preceded by Ritz mania. Webb just ran 3:56 in a warm-up meet hopefully he doesn't blow his season on a 10k like last year. Teg kicked ass in Europe last year. Sell represented at Boston. Torres is still out there. So is Fam.

Yep today's American kids suck.

59:43 = 12:47 they ran that all the time in the '70s.

Look at 4 of the top 5 mens teams at NCs - only one left-over kenyan on Oregon. Thats whats in the pipeline. Roha, Rupp, Acosta.

well I am only 17 and I was just wondering how they trained. I know they did higher mileage but at what pace?

8:36 is just crazy

its strange...I cant find any pics of him at all...didn't they have cameras back then or did the CIA get to them?

same with granville too

I think we need a Whatever Happened thread about Granville and Obea Moore

Start here and scroll through the pages for some good old school photos.

I didn't say todays generation is worse, mabye just different

and ryan hall isn't exactly a kid anymore...

American running is defentily on an upswing after the 90's

runn wrote:

I think today's kids have just as much potential and they are proving that. But, I really think the problem is:

1. Too much to do. It is not good enough to just be a teenager, go to school and do your sport and go home. Now, much more is expected out of kids.

This has been my biggest problem as a high school coach. One year I tried introducing doubles to my top runners, just to instill the mindset. We did an easy 20-30 minute run 3 days a week which served mainly as a warm-up for what we did later in the day. But nobody wanted to limit their work hours, social life, or anything else to ensure that they were getting the rest a runner in training needed; as a result it was one of the worst years we ever had with sickness.

These kids were willing to work, but they weren't willing to do the little things that really made a difference, I think in part because it would have set them apart quite a bit from their peer group. That's tough to fight against.

runn wrote:

2. It is more difficult to find kids who are willing to push to the limits. First, they grow up being "nurtured" and filled with crazy notions that lift their self-esteem for doing nothing.

3. I also think that the fact that mothers, with no athletic background are more involved in their children's lives. I find that the mothers who are athletic are more willing to allow their kids to train hard and not be babied by the coach (me). Unathletic mothers do't think their kids should push and always question why we have practice when it's too hot, cold, rainy, etc.'

That said, it looks like things are getting better.

I can't say it better than that... nice job!

I can only agree that kids from 60s and 70s seemed to work a lot harder and run a lot faster than in the 80s and 90s. And I also have to agree that the whole PC, Self-Esteem, Everybody is a winner cultural thing is at least mostly responsible for it. Seems to me that parents want to be so involved in their kids' lives that they're limiting their kids to what they feel is safe. I also see an improvement and a lot of young talent rattling its way through the pipe over the last few years. Webb, Teg, Hall, Ritz, Cabada, Sell, Rupp, Solinski and many others have been making great improvements of late. I can only hope that the more good racing we see, the more competition we will see. Granted, we still aren't any faster than 30 years ago, but I hope that we can eventually get back there and improve on it.

Northpaw? wrote:

I can only agree that kids from 60s and 70s seemed to work a lot harder and run a lot faster than in the 80s and 90s. ... Seems to me that parents want to be so involved in their kids' lives that they're limiting their kids to what they feel is safe.

I agree with much of what has been said, but one thing I'd like to go back to is the part of this quote that talks about parental involvment.

I ran in HS during the 70's and I don't think my parents attended any of my races. I'm not saying this as a poor me kind of thing, but it just didn't seem to be on most parents' radars.

I would go out for a run, sometimes late at night and not even think twice about potential harm that might befall me. There is no way I would let my kid out after 8:00pm to run by herself. That's just a reality of life.

Some of the places I ran as a high schooler, I'd have to think twice about even going into that area anymore.

Even getting into a car with a load of teammates and driving as far asa we used to to go to a race would be something I'd question my hgihschpp;er doing these days.