"And I'm not talking some $400,000 a year working Wall Street stiff flying first class and being ‘comfortable,’ I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars. A player. Or nothing."
- GG
Truthiness wrote:
What are the large firms dealing with Internet Strategy? I'm currently working for an IT consulting firm but am interested in learning more about your field. Can you point me in the direction of any reading material? Thanks!
Truthfully, there are no large firms dealing in this industry right now. It is a tough situation because the industry continues to change, rapidly, and larger agencies and firms cannot keep ahead of the curve. You cannot train people to work in the field, because as soon as someone is up to speed, their knowledge is obsolete.
Think of it this way. A company spends $100 grand to teach their marketing team about using message boards, and then bam, before they are done with training, message boards are old hat and everyone is blogging...then video sharing and social networking. So on and so forth. It continues to evolve, so training is hard. You need people who grasp and foresee what is next.
We are not talking about SEO and that kind of thing, but actual strategy.
I have been working in the field for 4 years, and I am ancient. It has been stellar for networking, as I often deal with the heads of Marketing and PR for very large corporations, movie studios and so forth. We are hired by Ad Agencies as well, mainly because so few people know what the hell is going on. I am young, but it is easy because all I do is explain what I understand. Like I said before, it can be very frustrating b/c Marketers and Advertisers are so used to screaming at consumers, and the Internet does not work that way. Click through and CPM ads just aren't going to cut it for most corporations, they want to utilize the ability to interact with consumers. It is great for some industries, like film, but a nightmare for others.
I see things from a consumer perspective, as I have no reason to want to drive traffic or any of that crap, so that is what makes what I have to say so valuable as I see it. I will be honest and tell a company that, "yes, POTC fans would love to have an open Q&A with Orlando Bloom," as well as, "No, 20-something consumers likely do not want to watch and share a video about cleaning products."
While that sounds easy enough to you and me, it is crazy how warped many of these Marketing execs become after working for a bleach company for 25 years.
"What do you mean the teens don't like to talk about bleach?"
Anyway, some more info...
BuzzMetrics was a small, fledgling company that was purchased by Nielson, but there services are almost too broad to benefit most companies these days. No specialization. They never had an efficient model, and IMO, were a poor buy for Nielson. I think Nielson reacted too quickly, and they are already out of the game.
Other companies are Cymphony, Umbria and NMS, and most are located in major markets (although Umbria is in Boulder!!!).
As far as reading, below is a great, recent article, and I would really encourage you to read many of the more savvy marketing and tech blogs, as they really seem to keep an eye on what is up.
YPulse is another blog that often highlights many of the industry updates, albeit a little after-the-fact. Good place to get oriented though.
Hope it helps.
75k next year as a teacher in the midwest (masters degree and 45 extra graduate hours). I get to work with middle school kids and be a goof most of the day.
36 years old.
Summers off to play with my kids; 2 weeks at Christmas; big fat spring break; all weekends off; occasional snow day.
I'll take this over pretty much every scenario on here. Especially the banking crap. Ug. Must be a blast looking at numbers and dollar signs all day, shuffling papers, and putting up with grumpy investors. Have fun!
NYC wrote:
"if rich people are so miserable why dont they give up their jobs and money?
oh thats right thats just some feel good crap sold by people who want to feel that they made the right decisions in life.
majority of divorces in this country are contributed to money problems.....but at least their not miserable,,,right? At least they have creditors chasing them down, at least they can't send their kids to real schools, at least they can't go on vacations, at least they can't fly across the country to visit their parents, at least they can't .....oh nevermind, they are to happy to care about stuff like that."
I'm flat broke, but I'm really happy. My life decisions were that I really made a go at my running career in my twenties.
I raced in big European stadiums filled with track nuts. I saw the whole damn world practically penniless and it cost me not a cent.
Because I invested so much in my body, I still look really good as I push toward my forties. I get laid a lot. People still want to meet me everywhere I go as if I were a prophet of Jesus.
I get plenty to eat. I'm going back to school, but I'll take my sweet damn time as always.
I have no desire to enjoy any of the things you like to think I'm missing because quite frankly, there is no equal to the things I've already experienced.
I'm broke, I have a gazillion friends. I laugh everyday. I guess that's probably why women are attracted to me, because I'm happy.
That's a long race. I actually didn't start running ultras until I was 33.
Who are you?
I want to meet you, you sound so fantastic
vinny vini venci wrote:
Flagpole Willy wrote:Interesting info. It's not too difficult to get into that top 15% of households making $100,000 or more though. If you've got two college-educated people (husband and wife) living in the same house, and each has more than 5 years of experience in a professional field, they are very likely to be bringing home more than $100,000. When my wife goes back to work, we will be easily over the $100,000 line. We'll need it too as the kids will want to go to college and I still want to be able to retire by age 60.
With all due respect Flagpole, you should push your kids in school so that they can get an academic merit scholarship instead of having mommy and daddy bail them out with blowing their retirement savings.
and, your calculations look nice and pretty with the 8% return and 11% and whatnot, but you're never taking into account inflation.
it's a bitch.
Yeah, well, academic scholarships would be nice. Both of my kids are definitely capable of that, so who knows, but even if they end up being in the top 1%, nationwide that's still a TON of kids. Gotta plan for it NOT to happen and then if it does I just get to retire with more money. If they go to Ohio Wesleyan where both my wife and I went, then they get $10,000 off per year. Might be a viable option.
Regarding inflation, yep, $62,000 25 years from now won't be what it is now, but hey, it's better than nothing -- way better than nothing.
vinny vini venci wrote:
With all due respect Flagpole, you should push your kids in school so that they can get an academic merit scholarship instead of having mommy and daddy bail them out with blowing their retirement savings.
and, your calculations look nice and pretty with the 8% return and 11% and whatnot, but you're never taking into account inflation.
it's a bitch.
Or make them run 100 miles a week in high school and take a full-ride anywhere you can get it. That's my plan :)
Po' boy wrote:
NYC wrote:
"if rich people are so miserable why dont they give up their jobs and money?
oh thats right thats just some feel good crap sold by people who want to feel that they made the right decisions in life.
majority of divorces in this country are contributed to money problems.....but at least their not miserable,,,right? At least they have creditors chasing them down, at least they can't send their kids to real schools, at least they can't go on vacations, at least they can't fly across the country to visit their parents, at least they can't .....oh nevermind, they are to happy to care about stuff like that."
I'm flat broke, but I'm really happy. My life decisions were that I really made a go at my running career in my twenties.
I raced in big European stadiums filled with track nuts. I saw the whole damn world practically penniless and it cost me not a cent.
Because I invested so much in my body, I still look really good as I push toward my forties. I get laid a lot. People still want to meet me everywhere I go as if I were a prophet of Jesus.
I get plenty to eat. I'm going back to school, but I'll take my sweet damn time as always.
I have no desire to enjoy any of the things you like to think I'm missing because quite frankly, there is no equal to the things I've already experienced.
I'm broke, I have a gazillion friends. I laugh everyday. I guess that's probably why women are attracted to me, because I'm happy.
someone figured it out. congratulations
Sagarin wrote:
vinny vini venci wrote:With all due respect Flagpole, you should push your kids in school so that they can get an academic merit scholarship instead of having mommy and daddy bail them out with blowing their retirement savings.
and, your calculations look nice and pretty with the 8% return and 11% and whatnot, but you're never taking into account inflation.
it's a bitch.
Or make them run 100 miles a week in high school and take a full-ride anywhere you can get it. That's my plan :)
Athletic scholarships come about because of talent and work, but the LOVE has to be there or it won't happen -- not in running anyway. As far as running goes, my son lists it as his favorite thing to do, and I've not pushed him into it at all. He's already destroying all the kids when they have to run further than even just 50 yards. Same start that I had, only he will know how to train better when it gets time for that. Still going to plan for having to pay for college though, and then if we don't have to it's all just gravy.
Never unless you count real estate "killings".
Anonymous PE wrote:
I'll take a crack at your question. I graduated from a top engineering school in 2001. Out of school I started in the mid 40's, now roughly 6 years out I could approach 100K as a Civil PE after bonuses (I won't quite make it, but should beat 90K).
The three biggest drivers determining my salary in order of importance were:
1) Location
2) Industry
3) Performance
Why is #1 location, because if you work in New York City, San Francisco, or LA, starting salaries out of college will be 50% or more higher than most places in the country. This sounds good, but you have to consider that it is 106% more expensive to live in San Francisco, 104% more expensive to live in NYC, and 101% more expensive to live in LA than it is to live in the average place in the US.
#2 is industry, because the same education, credentials, and skills bring drastically different salaries in different industries. For instance, average salaries in SF, excluding bonuses, are around 80K for Environmental Engineers, but only around 60K for Structural Engineers even though it takes more education and certification to be a Structural Engineer. Never mind some of the software engineer positions with Google, Ebay, etc... which can pay 120K plus to start (but are nearly impossible to get).
#3 is performance because, the sad truth is life is not a meritocracy. Most companies have a very narrow range of base salary they will pay for certain positions. The hard truth is getting A's in school will only get you maybe a grand more in salary than getting B's. Similarly, killing it on the job will only get you promoted marginally quicker than doing an acceptable job and being nice to your supervisor. Bonuses are the one area where your performance can really make a difference, but you would have to be in a very good company to get a bonus more than 10% of your salary.
So to answer your question as to why I-banker types with less skill and intelligence than your average PE make 3 times as much, its basically industry and location. Almost all finacial jobs are in NYC or SF, and the industry makes boatloads of money so it pays well.
Not all is lost though. Engineer pays pretty dam good and the quality of life is way higher than finance if you find a field you like and a good company. Working hours are generally limited to 45hrs per week at the most (and the extra 5 are generally because the work is interesting and you want to be there) and you will be surrounded with smart, low drama, low ego type people.
Good luck with your career.
Note: Not proof read for spelling or grammar.
I appreciate your post. Not only is it informative, but it makes me feel that I've made a wise choice to study engineering.
nice. i'm in my late 20's, graduated 3 years ago, run professionally, travel the world, as you did mr. po boy. and i agree with you. i have several options that could easily earn me 10x the income i'm currently earning, which is very little. i make close to 20-25k / year running. and with a major marathon success, perhaps a bit more. i'm married, no children; a lab puppy, which is suprisingly very demanding. my wife and i bought a small home, and therefore have no money at all. we live, essentially, from one race to the next, and off her small earnings.
you're right. this is worth it. Having the opportunity to do something extraordinary is a rare thing in a lifetime. I travel to all over the world. ireland, france, india, africa, france, denmark...I have plenty of food to eat, enough money to afford a home to live in, and a beautiful wife.
so i guess the point is...100k isn't as prestigious as it may sound. if you have an opportunity to do something extraordinary, like running professionally, do it and don't regret it, just because you can't drive a BMW.
Po'boy and r..., you are right to run while you can. The money can come later but the challenge of running your best can not.
Orville Atkins, age 70
Anonymous Poster wrote:
Truthfully, there are no large firms dealing in this industry right now. It is a tough situation because the industry continues to change, rapidly, and larger agencies and firms cannot keep ahead of the curve. You cannot train people to work in the field, because as soon as someone is up to speed, their knowledge is obsolete.
Think of it this way. A company spends $100 grand to teach their marketing team about using message boards, and then bam, before they are done with training, message boards are old hat and everyone is blogging...then video sharing and social networking. So on and so forth. It continues to evolve, so training is hard. You need people who grasp and foresee what is next.
We are not talking about SEO and that kind of thing, but actual strategy.
I have been working in the field for 4 years, and I am ancient. It has been stellar for networking, as I often deal with the heads of Marketing and PR for very large corporations, movie studios and so forth. We are hired by Ad Agencies as well, mainly because so few people know what the hell is going on. I am young, but it is easy because all I do is explain what I understand. Like I said before, it can be very frustrating b/c Marketers and Advertisers are so used to screaming at consumers, and the Internet does not work that way. Click through and CPM ads just aren't going to cut it for most corporations, they want to utilize the ability to interact with consumers. It is great for some industries, like film, but a nightmare for others.
I see things from a consumer perspective, as I have no reason to want to drive traffic or any of that crap, so that is what makes what I have to say so valuable as I see it. I will be honest and tell a company that, "yes, POTC fans would love to have an open Q&A with Orlando Bloom," as well as, "No, 20-something consumers likely do not want to watch and share a video about cleaning products."
While that sounds easy enough to you and me, it is crazy how warped many of these Marketing execs become after working for a bleach company for 25 years.
"What do you mean the teens don't like to talk about bleach?"
Anyway, some more info...
BuzzMetrics was a small, fledgling company that was purchased by Nielson, but there services are almost too broad to benefit most companies these days. No specialization. They never had an efficient model, and IMO, were a poor buy for Nielson. I think Nielson reacted too quickly, and they are already out of the game.
Other companies are Cymphony, Umbria and NMS, and most are located in major markets (although Umbria is in Boulder!!!).
As far as reading, below is a great, recent article, and I would really encourage you to read many of the more savvy marketing and tech blogs, as they really seem to keep an eye on what is up.
YPulse is another blog that often highlights many of the industry updates, albeit a little after-the-fact. Good place to get oriented though.
Hope it helps.
Great response, thanks for taking the time to go in depth. I have a few more questions; do you have an email address where I can get in touch with you? If you'd prefer to stay anonymous I can be reached at greyarea12 at gmail dot com.
Ees no big deel. I mahke $15 an hr under the table but i pay noo tahxes and Tio Sam gives me WIC and food stams for thee little onez we also have section ocho houzing the sbc is going to give me lone for house soon.
You seem to have a solid grasp on the marketing industry, which is the industry I am trying to get into. I also would love to ask you a couple of questions outside of this forum if you would be willing to take the time. Please contact me at senate_311music@yahoo.com (that is not my professional e-mail for obvious reasons) if you would be willing to answer any questions. If not, I understand and appreciate the time you took into posting. Take care
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