Mediocre Runner experiments and documents results

...get some moderately paced (NOT slow) 90-minute runs in there twice a week.

I realize that Lydiard had great success with that kind of training, but I honestly think a 90 minute run is the absolute maximum for a 800/miler, and that's once a week. Maybe I'm naive, probably I'm just lazy, but it's just not for me. I don't really think of Lydiard as the ideal training method for milers and under.

run a 90 minute or so long run on sundays instead of resting

That's something I had considered. And I would run that quite slow. I would think it would leave me a little too fatigued though. I mean Coe (Who I considered one of the more aerobic 800/milers, definitely capable of a 13:05 or so 5K) from what I understand probably maxed out his long runs at around 70 minutes. I think that after that point, the miles would become more or less junk. If I was training for a 3K/5K/10K though, I would definitely go 90 minutes a few time a week. Basically the reasoning for my training is to get my body accustomed to a pace, while also improving Aerobic Threshold and Anaerobic Threshold. Also, ideally, my body will grow accustomed to quicker recovery/faster metabolism. This will enable to me to perform better in doubles in meets.

One of the best 800m runners ever was Jaquim Cruz who was from Brazil and attended Oregon U. He ran 70 miles a week and a lot of 400m. repeats.I think he put together the most sub 1:43 halfs in a period of time.

Just my opinion, but I think putting in more miles and building strength and endurance is what gives you more potential to perform doubles at meets. The pace stuff comes once you build the strength. Track is a long season. There is no reason to do speed six months out from your peak races (if your main meets are in May/June).

you want to run a 4:20 mile equivalent and you're doing 400's in 72. that seems too slow. I did 12x400 in 72 with 60 seconds rest a month ago and I wasn't capable of running much under 4:50, at best, I would think.

In the first line of my original post I state that I am in about 4:48 shape. I'm not training at goal pace, I'm training at my current pace, with hopes that it becomes easier, which will make me have a faster race ability, which will make the speed of the reps increase. My big races are in late April, so that's about 20 weeks. I need to get from 10x400 in 72 to 10x400 in 65. Since this is the start of my training, and I have run 4:30 in the past, I feel like a reasonable increase would be one second faster every two weeks, with it slowly becoming 3 weeks and then 4 weeks at each pace if need be.

In the first line of my original post I state that I am in about 4:48 shape. I'm not training at goal pace, I'm training at my current pace, with hopes that it becomes easier, which will make me have a faster race ability, which will make the speed of the reps increase. My big races are in late April, so that's about 20 weeks. I need to get from 10x400 in 72 to 10x400 in 65. Since this is the start of my training, and I have run 4:30 in the past, I feel like a reasonable increase would be one second faster every two weeks, with it slowly becoming 3 weeks and then 4 weeks at each pace if need be.

Dude, you're an idiot. use you're own computer. Anyway, good luck with your training. See you in two minutes.

Peter Snell + 22 milers = not a bad middle distance guy

I had relatively the same PR's and goals coming into my junior year last year. You'd be surprised how long 20 weeks is of track work. Instead of track work i would do a tempo (20-25min) once a week for two weeks, then add a minutes workout in for the next three weeks. Then you take out the tempo and start hill workout once a week instead for 5 weeks (1 hill, 1 minutes). At this point you start the track workouts first one minutes one track then two weeks later both track workouts, increasing the speed and lowering the distance of the intervals as you move into the season. The key to maintaining your speed in the offseason is strides after two or three of your runs. Also a long run is key, anywhere from 70 to 80 minutes is acceptable. Try to get your mileage up to 50-6mpw(depending on how your legs take miles) with a down week every 3-4 weeks. This sets you up well for running fast and late season doubles. Last year i followed this and ran a triple at state winning two and getting second in the other. Having an aroebic base is important for staying injury free and running fast late in the season. (1600- 4:23 800 1:54)

hmmm

jonesjonesjones wrote:

you want to run a 4:20 mile equivalent and you're doing 400's in 72. that seems too slow. I did 12x400 in 72 with 60 seconds rest a month ago and I wasn't capable of running much under 4:50, at best, I would think.

I hear these arguments and I think this is terrible thinking. I used to have the same kind of attitude. That workout is a perfect example of an interval workout (as long as rests are sufficiently short). 72 is probably about V02max pace (velocity at V02max). That workout is perfect as long as rests are between 60-75 seconds and no longer.

If he wants to work on race pace for the mile, he should do repititions (both workouts have their place in a proper training program). That kind of workout would be faster 400s with longer rests.

I´m tired of hearing about Peter Snell and his long runs. One tree doesn´t make a forest. I spoke to Jolanda Ceplak´s coach when I was in Potchefstroom and Juriy Borzakovskiy´s coach when I was in S:t Moritz and they certainly don´t do 90 minute runs - ever!