Notre Dame FOOTBALL

I think a lot of people are looking at the wrong issue. It shouldn't be that ND or USC are dumb because they won in football. The US News rankings have ND #20, Cal #21, Michigan #25, UCLA #26, USC #27. When Texas played USC for the BCS Championship last year, they were the #12 and #6 ranked engineering schools. I could mention Georgia Tech and Stanford, although not as football powers. These schools haven't forgotten to be Universities that also succeed in athletics, not merely athletic factories.

The problem is outfits like Arkansas, Auburn, LSU, Oregon, Oklahoma, and a whole bunch more that you'll find highly placed in rankings. Ohio State ranks in the bottom half of Big-10 schools academically, and would be the same in the PAC-10. Do kids even have to go to class at some of these?

?? wrote:

No it just means I actually watched the games. Michigan, Michigan State, GT, etc.

We've lost 2 games. We are very lucky not to have 4 or 5 losses right now. We barely scraped by against some terrible teams. We belong in the 15-20 range.

fair enough. just wanted to actually see that you would rank a 10-2 ND below 9-3 Cal and 9-3 Texas. It doesn't matter how many losses we could have had. We could have had 12, but we don't. We have 2. FYI, of the 65 AP voters, only 2 agree with your 15-20 assessment. Those 2 have us at #16. Everyone else has ND 13 or higher, and that includes ND hater Jason Whitlock, who has despised ND and repeatedly called the race card since we fired Radio. Again, moronic to say ND belongs 15-20 right now.

Let's face it, ND will continue to struggle until they do the smart thing and hire RUDY for their coach.

hahahahha wrote:

Flagpole Willy wrote:

1) I love how when someone says a certain school's football team sucks that immediately a fan of that school's team comes back with -- "yeah, but we're smarter" or "we'll be your bosses some day." How is that even relevant? The topic is the ability of the football team, and nothing else. Perhaps you aren't as smart as you think you are.

Perhaps you have trouble reading. The academic talk is in response to the poster who claimed they loosened their academic standards to accept better football players.

And you of all people telling people they aren't as smart as they think? Thanks, that made my day.

Doesn't matter. The thread was about FOOTBALL, and it always gets down to academics. If you want to talk academics, follow Quiz Bowl.

1) Booty better be able to get that ball to him though. He's not as polished or as experienced as Troy Smith.

2) I don't think ND can beat Arkansas or Florida. What makes you think that? They got POUNDED by the only two good teams they played this year. Can't wait to see ND lose it's Bowl game again. I don't even hate ND, but it's clear they end up way over their heads in bowl games, so to me they don't deserve to be in the bowls they get. I know money talks, but 8 losses in a row! This is getting ridiculous.

3) Texas is a damn good football team. They lost to OSU because OSU is better, and they had that other loss because their quarterback was knocked out in the first series. I know that's part of the game, but they don't lose if he's in the whole game. Anyway, Texas would eat ND for lunch.

4) Actually it's taking a risk to play Youngstown State. A favor turned in, but they'd better win all their games next year to get a shot. Not like they do that every year. Texas was just scheduled two years in a row for non-conference games, and they've played Miami when Miami was still good and they've just done a deal to play Florida two in a row down the road. They don't just schedule pushovers.

5) Never said the Buckeyes will for sure win both, but it is not a stretch to imagine it happening. They will be favored to win the BCS game in January, and right now the basketball team is No. 1 in the country with the best player in the country (and maybe one of the top 5 in the NBA even) sitting on the bench. When Oden comes back, they could put together a string to win that tournament. They are in a good position to do it. Of course things could not go their way -- that's why I didn't say they WOULD win, just that it could EASILY happen -- means there's a very good chance...and there is.

ND should can Weiss. A career assistant with 4 SB rings. The only head coaching job Weiss should have is over a trans-fat smorgasbord restaurant.

ND Fan wrote:

ND should can Weiss. A career assistant with 4 SB rings. The only head coaching job Weiss should have is over a trans-fat smorgasbord restaurant.

Or an obnoxious blowhard finishing school.

?? wrote:

fair enough. just wanted to actually see that you would rank a 10-2 ND below 9-3 Cal and 9-3 Texas. It doesn't matter how many losses we could have had.

Of course it matters! That's like saying it doesn't matter how badly Michigan beat us. It sure mattered to the pollsters. Michigan made us look like silly. If it had been a nailbiter, down to the wire, we would have only lost a couple of places, as Michigan did after they lost Ohio State. Instead we lost many.

Again, moronic to say ND belongs 15-20 right now.

Any team that gets humiliated by Michigan as badly as we did still might belong in the top 10. Getting stomped by USC the way we did, well possibly. But when that team just barely squeaks by Georgia Tech, takes a last-second miracle to beat unranked, 1-7 Michigan State and barely outlasts unranked 4-4 UCLA, it simply does not belong in the top 14 teams in the nation. How many times do we have to suck before people start ranking us where we belong?

I think the real story came late in the ND-USC game when an offside kick was caught and returned all the way for a touchdown, by USC's......DEFENSIVE END. The guy is more like a big linebacker playing end, but still....

Just how slow are those guys (ND)? To say they run like a girl might not be fair to the girls.

Coach D wrote:

Just how slow are those guys (ND)? To say they run like a girl might not be fair to the girls.

Most of the night, USC covered ND's star receiver (Smarczyk-it's not worth learning to spell)one-on-one with a linebacker. That makes pressure up front and downfield coverage pretty easy. One thing is sure, ND better upgrade speed if they ever want to be in a big bowl "legitimately"!

Low graduation rate wrote:

USC has a low rate because half their team goes pro, they don't need their degree. ND players NEED a degree because they suck and can't make a living playing football.

2003 NFL OPENING DAY ROSTERS BY SCHOOL

1. Florida 40

Notre Dame 40

3. Florida State 37

4. Miami, Fla. 36

Georgia 36

Tennessee 36

7. Texas A&M 33

8. Michigan 31

9. Ohio State 29

10. Penn State 28

Nebraska 28

12. Southern Cal 27

13. Colorado 26

14. California 25

Auburn 25

16. LSU 24

17. North Carolina 23

18. Kansas State 22

Arizona State 22

Stanford 22

UCLA 22

22. Syracuse 20

West Virginia 20

Illinois 20

Iowa 20

Wisconsin 20

Washington 20

Alabama 20

29. Michigan State 18

Miss. State 18

South Carolina 18

32. Virginia 17

Texas 17

Ole Miss 17

35. Arizona 16

36. Maryland 15

Boston College 15

Virginia Tech 15

Oklahoma 15

San Diego State 15

Au Contraire wrote:

2003 NFL OPENING DAY ROSTERS BY SCHOOL

2003 was 4 years ago. ND is the only school without players talented enough to leave early which is what goes against graduation rates. 1993 (Jerome Bettis) is the last ND skill player taken in the first round, although Quinn will change that next year.

blue is you wrote:

Most of the night, USC covered ND's star receiver (Smarczyk-it's not worth learning to spell)one-on-one with a linebacker. That makes pressure up front and downfield coverage pretty easy. One thing is sure, ND better upgrade speed if they ever want to be in a big bowl "legitimately"!

Carlson (TE) was out (he's up for the best TE award - I forget the name of it right now). He is a crucial part of the offense. Freeman is a decent replacement, but nowhere near the talent of Carlson. This took away the midfield offensive threat leaving Samardzija (not that fast) and McKnight as the points of attention. Not too hard to cover both of those guys.

As for defense, ND's leading tackler (or rather, only great tackler) was injured early on. His replacement did a very poor job.

ND has some great stars this year and have been extremely fortunate to avoid injury up until the USC game. 2 of their best players were hurt and the effects were definitely noticeable. ND's (lack of) depth was exposed against USC. Again, thanks to Willingham for that. Good to see him ruining a separate program now, although I feel sorry Washington fans (who are already calling to fire him).

* I feel sorry FOR Washington fans

?? wrote:

shipalum- i'm curious which teams you think should go to a BCS game over ND. and what does it mean to "hang your hat on the GT win"? I pointed out they beat a quality team on the road. I'm also still waiting for this big list of teams who play a tougher schedule than ND.

fair enough. addressing the schedule, according to sagarin, notre dame has the 19th toughest schedule in the country. very solid, yes. they get a big boost from their two blowout losses, michigan and usc. i don't have a problem with their schedule or playing the service academies. unc and stanford are usually better than they were this year and penn state, purdue, mich st are all generally good football teams.

i'm saying georgia tech was notre dame's "signature win" this year and their only win over a ranked team. it's hard to say they're better than anyone in the top 15 based on what they've done on the field. a couple bad teams (ucla and mich st) had notre dame on the ropes and those teams proved they were bad by finding a way to blow those games. notre dame deserves credit for pulling them out of course.

the problem i have is that an argument could be made for other teams getting in, but notre dame's in because they're notre dame. last year, was it cal that got left out while notre dame got in and had 600 yards put up against them? they will always get the benefit of the doubt with the silly bowl system. if rutgers beats wvu and wins the big east this weekend, wouldn't louisville deserve a bid over notre dame? the silly system doesn't allow for more than 2 teams from a conference to go, so they get left out over notre dame. notre dame's not in a conference though, so the rules are different. the rules being different are why people dislike notre dame not the team or the fans in my opinion. the nbc lovefest, the different bcs rules for notre dame, the automatic $1 million payout on years that notre dame doesn't qualify for the bcs... add in the arrogance you see on this thread that notre dame is somehow this greater institution with values above everyone else in the country. that's pretty absurd thinking, isn't it?

i think notre dame deserves consideration to be in the bcs with 3 or 4 other good football teams. they are good and have done some nice things, like the dismantling of my poor nittany lions, but i just don't think they should be a shoo-in for a bcs spot this year.

the whole system stinks. put the top 16 in a playoff and we'll see who's best and they'd make $10 billion off of it.

instead, we get the 30 bowl games that mean nothing and a national title game 6 weeks after the season ended. it's tough to play your best after a month or two of no game action.

thank you. this post actually makes sense, unlike most who just blast ND's schedule. And you're right that ND should be "in the discussion" with several other deserving teams, and it may be unfair that they get in almost automatically. As for L'ville, I think they will get a spot if Rutgers beats WVU, but they will take LSU (??)'s spot, not ND's. Also, for clarification, I'm pretty sure ND now gets $4.5 million from the BCS each year, regardless of whether they make it, not just the $1 mill you mentioned. (But they forego the $15ish mill they would be getting this year).

Nothing new here, but it's very apparent that the BCS is more about $$ than it is about crowing the best team, so ND will always be in the mix as long as they're good and people want to watch them.

I'm an ND fan and I think the program is moving in the right direction, but they are still a couple of years away. Should the be in a BCS game? I'd rather they weren't because I think they just aren't at that level yet. The offense is very good (although losing the QB and the two best wideouts will take that back a step or two), the defense is still too small and slow. From a fan standpoint, I'd rather they play a 10-15 ranked team in a bowl to really see where they stand, because I've watched them this year and it's been maddening because they play well at times and at other times look like teams from the Davie/Willingham years.

As far as a playoff goes, I think we would respect people more if they just admitted the current bowl/BCS setup is all about money and the NFL. The NFL is one reason why New Year's bowl games aren't played until Monday if Jan. 1 falls on a Sunday, and any playoff would more than likely overlap their playoffs and I doubt they would like to be upstaged in any way by their minor-league affiliates. I'm biased as someone who likes college football as compared to the NFL, but if you put an Ohio St.-USC game for the national championship up against a divisional playoff game, I'm thinking the college game would get better ratings.

shipalum wrote:

Nothing new here, but it's very apparent that the BCS is more about $$ than it is about crowing the best team, so ND will always be in the mix as long as they're good and people want to watch them.

This is the worst of the whole situation in my opinion. There will always be a team in one of the BCS games that is less-deserving because of the money, which is one of the biggest reasons that the system needs to be scrapped. I'm a huge proponent of the playoff system, and agree that it only does great things for the media, the programs, the money, and the fans.

I suspect that most people who are posting in opposition of ND going to a bowl game are those who feel that other teams are more deserving--granted there are those who simply believe that Notre Dame just sucks. But, as long as the handpicking process is clouded by the cash, this problem will not go away. I agree that ND is not a shoe-in, and am disappointed that other teams will likely be kept out of the BCS games so the bowls can rake in more dough.

?? wrote:

gotta love all the ND haters out there. I think it's interesting how 2 years ago, most experts were saying that ND would never be relevent again because their schedule is too tough. Now that they're good, their schedule is too weak. Gimme a break. Their schedule is not the toughest in the country, but which teams really have a much tougher one?...

According to the NCAA, these teams: