Marc Bloom: Pioneer or Self -Promoting Idiot

I can honestly say, I have never for one moment in my life given a damn about Marc Bloom or what he has (or has not) done for the sport of running. Until this moment, I have never even stopped to consider it.

Well, now that's a completely wasted minute of my life.

I vote "self-promoting idiot", along with John Dye

option number 2 wrote:

I vote "self-promoting idiot", along with John Dye

Marc Bloom doesn't plaster his picture on the bottom of every freakin page! Marc Bloom's favorite hobby isn't taking pictures of himself and marveling at them.

Northwest Run wrote:

I think Bloom has done a lot for running. The lead poster of this is another Lets Run hater.

As the "lead poster," I would like to say that I started this thread, not to slander Marc Bloom, but to see what others thought.

When I first got into running, Marc Bloom did amazing things for me. I didn't really know anything and the information I got from The Harrier and his books was very valuable. I thank him for creating in me a real love of the sport.

I think what this thread has shown me is that one can be a pioneer and a self-promoting idiot at the same time. Marc Bloom has done amazing things for the sport, as many have said, but he is trying very hard to make money from this sport too. The man needs to make a living and he comes of more than a little self-serving at times.

I think it is also an issue of overlap of generations. There were times when Marc Bloom was our only source of info. But now with the internet, I realize that I have heard pretty much everything in the Harrier before it comes out. Has Marc Bloom's time simply past?

Are you sure about that? His site used to be "theharrier" but I guess that did not showcase his name so he changed it to "marcbloomrunning". His picture is on both sites and his new site starts off with "Buy my Book". Just thought I'd point that out.

I virtually inhaled his book "Cross Country" in the '80s and still wish I had it to reference. One of the best running books I've ever read. "The Harrier" was an awesome glossy and still solid through the '80s. When he started rankings I think he got a little too much power and hasn't been the same since. Overall, however, he has added more to the sport than detracted. Pioneer... yes. Self promoting... yes. A bit arrogant and obtuse... maybe. Idiot... no way.

So, "optiom number 2" and all other Bloom naysayers, is it safe to assume that you work for free...that you are not compensated for your time spent away from letsrun.com?

Is it safe to say that you can readily quantify that which you've put back INTO the sport?

May I suggest that you consider taking the time and energy expended on disparaging Marc and use it to help better the sport in some tiny way.

MF

Rav Simcha wrote:

I think what this thread has shown me is that one can be a pioneer and a self-promoting idiot at the same time.

Why is self promotion idiotic?

If you can't promote yourself no one is going to do it for you.

I'll go on record to agree with Fanelli support Marc Bloom. Of course Bloom wants everyone to read what he wrote. That's why he, or any writer writes.

I have no doubt about Bloom's expertise or sincerity.

Tom

slaps wrote:

I'd rather be a kid going into college with no ego than a high schooler ( Acosta) that has been overhyped. It seems to work better that way for kids who develop further.

I used to like the old days before the internet when Jeff Nelson ran 8:36 and got about a 2 sentence mention in TnF news.

Today a kid who wins footlocker gets more internet mention than a stud like Dan Lincoln or Marc Croghan ever would get in their entire career.

You don't see Kenya, or even any other country pumping up HS runners like you do in the U.S.

Keep in mind no one wrote like anything on HSers until a couple years ago, and the overall talent level was significantly lower than it is now. With the increase in attention comes an increase in talent. And the only place I could ever see a HSer getting more internet attention than a stud like Dan Lincoln is dyestat, a High School board. AJ Acosta is argued about because of his personality. If he was a quiet kid, no one would really be chatting that much about him.

Uhhhhhhh, Little hyperbole alert here? I have no qualms with Bloom, except for his overexaggerating the St. Rose State Championship. I'd be interested to know, though, what he's done for high school distance running that puts him on the plateau you've reserved?

'Position in the Sun' is a bit more than I'm willing to grant. Sure, he writes a few articles every now and then and a book every few years, but I can't think of anyone who considers him one of the foremost T&F writers working these days. He seems like a nice enough guy, but it's probably best just to leave it at that. Does he sponsor any meets, or road races or give any scholarships. That would be what most call doing something for the sport.

I just came back from a wonderful lunch with Marc--and he's the same intelligent, kind, inquisitive and entusiastic guy I remembered him to be. Now, to two of your questions. I'm guessing that you can't be over 40 years of age, and probably no more than 30. If so, you have no idea what it meant to have run in the 60s and 70s and for there to be nothing about your sport anywhere. Marc went to countless meets in NY, wrote them up for the NY Times, produced a yearbook and a newletter that came out 20 times a year, became editor of the Runner, a wonderful periodical. Also, many years ago Marc wrote an op-ed piece for the NY Times about the desultory condition of the Armory, a place many of us old-timers remember so fondly. The place had fallen to pieces, populated by the homeless, smelling wretchedly. Norbert Sander read that article and it was that that led him to seek to resuscitate the Armory, which is now one of the premier indoor running places in the world. Moreover, I at least consider Marc one the the best writers on T&F, and I'd offer his piece on Julio Meade as evidence for this, but please remember, those who chide him for making money from what he writes, is that HE'S A WRITER!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's how he earns his living; that's how he sent his two kids through college. Marc is an extremely decent guy as anyone who has known him for a long time can attest. That's why when you ask around and ask the people who have known him for a long time--Matt Centrowitz, the Fanelli brothers, and great T&F photographers, the brothers Sutton, they will all testify as to his deceny.

The saddest part about this sport is that everytime someone does something good for it, they get attacked in some way. Marc Bloom is a name I've heard all my life positively committed to the sport. This is the first time I've ever heard someone say something negative about him. Who would write a book and not promote it? Get real.

So you think any entrepeneur doing something they love is self-promoting? Bloom wrote a XC book based on personal experiences which touched him. And thats wrong because...? His service is not self-promoting, but would be out of business if he didn't provide something people wanted. John Dye has an ego, but he is also out to promote his website (duh). Anyone who has ever personally invested his/her own capital in a project would do the same damn thing.

Any runner and/or fan who criticizes legitimate promotion of our sport is an abject moron. Without promotion, you are never going to see another HS kid take a shot at the 4 minute mile or Jeff Nelson's 8:36.

Kudos to Marc Bloom, even if he didn't remember my great HS team from the past when I spoke to him a couple years ago.

I can honestly say that Marc Blooms Harrier was a HUGE, and I mean HUGE motivation for us in Spokane in the early 90's. Internet wasn't a resource yet, and the only way to find out what the Hausers from Kingwood Texas, or Meb, or Bob Keino etc. were up to was from reading that publication. And the rankings were the ultimate goal. It WAS the way to measure yourselves against the others in the country.

If it wasn't for Marc Bloom, our motivations would have probably stopped at the state level and as a result we wouldn't have been as good. I'd bet most teams in the top 25 (or trying to get there) wouldn't have been quite as good without his contribution.

I've never met him, but I will certainly not rip him for having a huge impact on high school running over the years. In fact I'd like to thank him. As far as making money for himself, some of you need to either burst your bubbles or take your self-righteousness inside it.

Rob

Rob,

While I appreciate what you're saying, I find it hard to believe you guys wouldn't have gone down to Fresno and run that 77:56 (or whatever it was) if not for Marc Bloom.

And just picture what it would have been like if you had run that and some other team had averaged 15:30 on a course everyone on the planet knew was short and thus garnered the #1 spot away from you due to Bloom's preconceived favoritism. (This happened more than once). Oh yeah, it would be a team that also brought their front five that day and you beat them. (happened at least once)

I'm older than 40. I'm fairly active in the 'running community.' I've met and spoken with M.B. a number of times and don't have anything bad to say about him. He seems like a decent guy. But...my running life and the running lives of most people I knew/know would be no different with or without him. To say that he's done 'more than the next 10... is just hyperbole if not utter nonsense. If it's true that it was his story that was the impetus for the refurbishing of The Armory, well then that's a definite plus. I really liked his 'Cross-Country book. I don't think it was great, but I really liked it. The 'Julio' story is good too. Of course he gets paid for writing but hey, that's his job. There are a lot of volunteers who've given and given over the years but work in the shadows. Ask people who've known him a long time, ask people who don't really know him...he's a nice guy? O.K. but I'd sure like to see the rest of that top 10 list.

p.s. I don't want to harp on this, but the year that St. Rose won the 'State Championship', they weren't one of the top 15 schools in N.J.. Parochial B, one of six groups, is traditionally the weakest group in the state. Of course, it's an accomplishment and you can only beat the other teams in your group, but it was insincere to represent the 'B' win as being 'the' state champion.

Pavlov wrote:

Rob,

While I appreciate what you're saying, I find it hard to believe you guys wouldn't have gone down to Fresno and run that 77:56 (or whatever it was) if not for Marc Bloom.

And just picture what it would have been like if you had run that and some other team had averaged 15:30 on a course everyone on the planet knew was short and thus garnered the #1 spot away from you due to Bloom's preconceived favoritism. (This happened more than once). Oh yeah, it would be a team that also brought their front five that day and you beat them. (happened at least once)

All I can say, is that for us he provided the only way to compare against the nation. When we lost a meet at the beginning of the season to a number 4 ranked team our number 1 guy was out and our 4th man raced injured for a very slow time. We slipped from #1 to #2 and we were on a mission that season to get back to #1. Every Harrier issue that came out was anticipated. We were still ranked #2 after our state meet, after a record setting phenomenal season for us. Because of that we were determined to smash footlocker west and all teams involved. When Micah and Matt went to Nationals they knew they had to respectively beat their Kingwood rivals (Brad & Brent) because I didn't make it out of the West region to face Kingwoods #3. A good deal of this intensity was built up around a ranking system that was provided by one man, Bloom. Now in my years his ratings seemed fair to me (including the year we were not 1st). In years past (without NTN) it would be quite hard to determine who was really the best.

Our year had 4 of the top 5 teams at the west region, and the top 2 runners from the top 2 teams at footlocker, so it was a pretty good indication of who was best, but surely it was still just a ranking. He didn't make us what we were, be he certainly provided incentive for us to be our very, very best. I have a feeling we might have settled for a bit less had he not provided what he did. It's that little difference, that can make all the difference.

How does/did he arrive at his rankings? Times alone? Were courses taken into account? Weather? Did he ever see any of the teams outside the NY/nj area during the season?