British Runners in the London Marathon

Jon Orange wrote:

Also, we are, or should be eating a lot of carbs anyway.

Getting a full tank of Glycogen, is not that difficult. I have a lot of experience of carbo loading, going back to my teens, when I was doing some huge mileages on a bike. Cyclists really know how to carbo load.

Loading ~12g CHO/kg body weight, means a lot of food to digest, can leave you bloated. I can recommend Leppin Carbo Lode, CHO powder. Tim Noakes used it as part of his studies and recorded supra-normal level of 200 mmol/kg muscle glycogen.

All the people I know carboload. A few use the depletion diet.

Remember that the last couple of weeks are also your tapper phase. You surely didn't run 120M in your last week before the 'thon did you?

If you managed to deplete your stores of muscle glycogen during your last two weeks of training, maybe eating a high carb diet in the 48 hours before the 'thon would allow for overcompensation... Even so, this would have to be more than your normal high carb diet.

Just cutting down running and increasing carbo intake over a two week period will never lead to overcompensation. All it will do is fill your glycogen stores to the limit that has been preset by your recent training.

I am not certain what you consider to be 'extreme training' but if your training fits this description then how would you describe 160 miles per week with as much hard running as a Kenyan can cope with ? They will store much more glycogen than you do if they cut down in the same way and eat the same amount of carbs.

If lots of runners believe you then they are badly advised.

Was that wet or dry muscle mass?

Possibly, just possibly, this thread has gone too far.

Slim Jim wrote:

Possibly, just possibly, this thread has gone too far.

Bollox, keep going. There's some nuggets of useful info here hidden amongst the playground argument.

i reckon we can keep it going till next year

[quote]Please, no more wrote:

Just cutting down running and increasing carbo intake over a two week period will never lead to overcompensation. All it will do is fill your glycogen stores to the limit that has been preset by your recent training.

I am not certain what you consider to be 'extreme training' but if your training fits this description then how would you describe 160 miles per week with as much hard running as a Kenyan can cope with ? They will store much more glycogen than you do if they cut down in the same way and eat the same amount of carbs.

If lots of runners believe you then they are badly advised.[/quote

"Just cutting down running and increasing carbo intake over a two week period will never lead to overcompensation. All it will do is fill your glycogen stores to the limit that has been preset by your recent training."

Yes, that is the point, we fill up with as much glycogen as we can, influenced by our training.

could you be any more pedantic?

Please no more yourself. You have nothing new to add to the debate. All you do is repeat what I keep saying, trying to pretend you know better.

GIVE IT A REST.

PLEASE.

I have never tried the depletion diet. It seems too extreme.

As regards taking on board fluid and energy drinks, I use Powergels. You have to take 200ml of water with a Powergel, which itself weighs 41g. That is a lot of water and gel in one go, quite tricky to do.

I didn't use powergels but something similar. Anyways, I don't usually take them with water. They are easy to take on a training run whereas a bottle of water isn't so I tend not to bother. In the marathon I try to time it so I take a gel near a water station and then can wash it down. Does it matter?

I asked this earlier but it may have got lost: Does taking gels in training make it too easy for your body and you are therefort missing some of the benefits of going long?

Are you asking if abstaining from CHO in training will increase your body's ability to metabolise fat at a given pace?

Don't know! I suppose in theory it may do...on the other hand training might be a bit pointless if you get to 2 hours and fall over on a 3 hour run

In practice it does help. Taking gels reduces the impact of the training, in terms of training the energy systems to operate more effectively on fat. If you fall over after running two hours then look for an event other than the marathon.

Falling over is rarely a problem unless I run into someone or something...

So taking gels on a long run will help your body operate more effectively on fat? How does that work?

In regards to helping with the impact of training, I couldn´t agree more. I have found taking one or two gels on 20+ mile runs makes them feel pretty easy and that is moving a decent clip.

water only on training runs. also do some near race pace work part depleted to drive fat burning. take high carb drinks straight after training as body stores as glycogen preferentialy in first hour after training.

practice your drinks/gels a few times on steady runs to make sure you can tolerate them.

i'm sure its been mentioned before but what the *** has happened to our coaching structure in uk if all these basic questions are being asked by 30 min 10k runners aspiring to the marathon ??

A few days reflection and navel gazing after a marathon is a good thing however this thread is in danger of becoming self indulgent to the extreme. time to get running again boys

In long steady training runs I often take bananas and water. On a long tempo run I use water and electrolyte drinks.

This is one boring f***ing thread. But I dont need to read it so keep it going kids.

running is boring though isn't it. And what about watching a marathon, how boring is that?

I was answering the question, does abstaining help. Answer yes. Taking gels makes the run easier, but has less training effect.

hurrah. The nail has been hit on the head!